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    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Aug 2, 2009, 11:21 PM
    Daughter in Law
    Before he married our daughter in law, our son was always friendly to us, and we thought that it would continue in this way. We bought an apartment for him and his now wife to live in before they were married and then they were listed in the telephone book just like us, and would answer their telephone if we or anyone else called. Both he and his now wife (DIL) could not get a loan to buy their first home so asked if we would go as guarantors for their home, which we did. They were married at the end of last year, and because we did not want to interefere too much in their wedding day plans we offered to give them the money for any wedding cake of their choice, as well as to pay for their airline tickets around the world as they were going on their honeymoon around the world.
    We thought that everything was OK, but now they have been married for nine months both our son and DIL are becoming more and more distant. I bought her a small box of chocolates for Mother's Day last year, but was told this year by our son that she was totally offended by this and that I was not to do this again, which I did not. Before they were married they had a short holiday in Bangkok and there was a military coup there at the time, so we called to see if our son and DIL were OK. This call is always remembered and spoken about by DIL as being silly and uneccessary, but we were worried about them, and would worry if any of our friends or relatives would be in a place where there was a military coup.
    We think that it is OK to talk to our son once a week on the telephone but every time we call, the message bank comes up and they never call back. So we ask to meet him for coffee or lunch sometimes near his work, but DIL always comes as well, which is OK, but then she controls all the conversation, and even puts our son down so that we cannot talk to him.
    It is very sad for us, as our other two children and grandson see us all the time, whenever any of us wants to, except now for our elder son, who seems embarrassed or scared to see us once a week or fortnight.
    A few years ago, before they were married, our son broke off his engagement with our now DIL, and she would call me day and night and refused to move out of the apartment that we had bought and that she shared with our son. I was very kind to her, and encouraged my son to go back to her, but now I am sorry that I did, as she does not want any relationship with us at all now. When our son bought his wedding ring he called to tell us, and because we thought we were being nice, we asked to see it, but she responded straight away with "nope".
    We just want a warm and kind relationship with our DIL and son, but it seems further and further away.

    Any suggestions
    taoplr's Avatar
    taoplr Posts: 415, Reputation: 144
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    #2

    Aug 3, 2009, 12:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazina View Post
    Before he married our daughter in law, our son was always friendly to us, and we thought that it would continue in this way. We bought an apartment for him and his now wife to live in before they were married and then they were listed in the telephone book just like us, and would answer their telephone if we or anyone else called. Both he and his now wife (DIL) could not get a loan to buy their first home so asked if we would go as guarantors for their home, which we did. They were married at the end of last year, and because we did not want to interefere too much in their wedding day plans we offered to give them the money for any wedding cake of their choice, as well as to pay for their airline tickets around the world as they were going on their honeymoon around the world.
    We thought that everything was OK, but now they have been married for nine months both our son and DIL are becoming more and more distant. I bought her a small box of chocolates for Mother's Day last year, but was told this year by our son that she was totally offended by this and that i was not to do this again, which I did not. Before they were married they had a short holiday in Bangkok and there was a military coup there at the time, so we called to see if our son and DIL were OK. This call is always remembered and spoken about by DIL as being silly and uneccessary, but we were worried about them, and would worry if any of our friends or relatives would be in a place where there was a military coup.
    We think that it is OK to talk to our son once a week on the telephone but every time we call, the message bank comes up and they never call back. So we ask to meet him for coffee or lunch sometimes near his work, but DIL always comes as well, which is OK, but then she controls all the conversation, and even puts our son down so that we cannot talk to him.
    It is very sad for us, as our other two children and grandson see us all the time, whenever any of us wants to, except now for our elder son, who seems embarrassed or scared to see us once a week or fortnight.
    A few years ago, before they were married, our son broke off his engagement with our now DIL, and she would call me day and night and refused to move out of the apartment that we had bought and that she shared with our son. I was very kind to her, and encouraged my son to go back to her, but now I am sorry that I did, as she does not want any relationship with us at all now. When our son bought his wedding ring he called to tell us, and because we thought we were being nice, we asked to see it, but she responded straight away with "nope".
    We just want a warm and kind relationship with our DIL and son, but it seems further and further away.

    Any suggestions
    This must be very painful.

    To start, scan through your narrative above and see the words I highlighted.

    Then, consider your son's training from an stranger's perspective. It looks like you have been too generous with him, and the two of them. Have you raised him to be dependent? Whatever your intentions and despite your good hearts, lovingly giving the way you describe, it is how he interpreted your generosity that counts.

    From your description, DIL is a controller, a manipulative dominatrix (not in the sexual sense) who either (1) has some reason to reject you that you haven't expressed, or (2) just does this because she can. I suspect the latter.

    If that suspicion is correct, your son needs someone to break the bubble of illusion surrounding him. A sibling? A best friend? One of you? Otherwise, he will stew in this induced state for as long as it takes for him to wake up.

    If I am wrong, you might be blind to things you are doing that cause them to behave this way. Some soul-searching is in order.

    Questions:

    Why did he break up with her?

    Was she offended by the chocolates because she is not a mother and you were hinting? What other things have happened that offended her?

    Were there incidents? Arguments?

    Why, do you believe, did he not want you to see the wedding ring?

    Have you overcontrolled him? Is she his refuge from your dominance

    Your answers will help clarify the picture.

    Tao
    Gemini54's Avatar
    Gemini54 Posts: 2,871, Reputation: 1116
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    #3

    Aug 3, 2009, 01:37 AM
    It's hard to make a judgment but it sounds as if your DIL is one of those women that likes to control their partner and that means controlling your son's interactions with the world.

    It's very hard to know how to react in a situation like this. Your first course of action may be to speak with your other children to see if their impressions are the same as yours, or if your son and DIL are only being distant with you. Also, do you know what the relationship is like with her parents?

    If you find that other children's experiences are consistent with yours, at least you will have confirmation that your DIL's coldness is not just directed at you.

    However, I suspect that there is not much that you can actually do. It is highly likely that any overtures towards your son or any questions you may ask of him will be reported to your DIL, potentially further exacerbating the situation.

    You may be best served by continuing the way that you have been. Back off a little on the phone calls but continue to have lunches with your son and DIL. Treat her like a precocious child - ignore her rude or nasty behavior and 'reward' her good behavior. Don't be drawn into any dramas created by her, as she will be sure to find ways to irritate you.

    Remember that your son has to live with her (and please her) and that this is why he's probably hesitant to have a lot of contact. Just let him know that you're very happy to talk to him and see him when you can. In the end he's an adult, and this is the person he's chosen as a wife. It's his journey, and he has to deal with it.
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Aug 3, 2009, 05:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by taoplr View Post
    This must be very painful.

    To start, scan through your narrative above and see the words I highlighted.

    Then, consider your son's training from an stranger's perspective. It looks like you have been too generous with him, and the two of them. Have you raised him to be dependent? Whatever your intentions and despite your good hearts, lovingly giving the way you describe, it is how he interpreted your generosity that counts.

    From your description, DIL is a controller, a manipulative dominatrix (not in the sexual sense) who either (1) has some reason to reject you that you haven't expressed, or (2) just does this because she can. I suspect the latter.

    If that suspicion is correct, your son needs someone to break the bubble of illusion surrounding him. A sibling? A best friend? One of you? Otherwise, he will stew in this induced state for as long as it takes for him to wake up.

    If I am wrong, you might be blind to things you are doing that cause them to behave this way. Some soul-searching is in order.

    Questions:

    Why did he break up with her?

    Was she offended by the chocolates because she is not a mother and you were hinting? What other things have happened that offended her?

    Were there incidents? Arguments?

    Why, do you believe, did he not want you to see the wedding ring?

    Have you overcontrolled him? Is she his refuge from your dominance

    Your answers will help clarify the picture.

    tao
    Thank you for your reply and suggestions. I might get our daughter to talk to our son to break his illusional bubble, as I think that my DIL's dominance is sometimes abusive of him.
    Answers to your questions...
    He broke up with her because he "fell in love with someone else".
    I was not hinting by giving her a box of chocolates and my daughter did the same, only because we both thought that every woman should be made to feel special on Mother's Day. We did not discuss the chocolates with my daughter, it was only coincidence that we both gave DIL a small box of chocolates each. We told DIL that we were giving her the chocolates to make her feel special.
    I have never argued with my DIL, but I feel she tries to make arguments with me, such as when I once bought a small packet of lollies for her and our two sons to take to watch a football game. She told all of us that the lollies that I bought were the only ones that she disliked out of all the lollies in the world. Another time, I bought both her and my daughter a slow cooker for Easter instead of Easter Eggs, as DIL said that she did not want any Easter Eggs, and both her and my son told me to immediately return the slow cooker to the store as DIL did not like it, so I returned it and gave them the money instead. She also invited me to her party before she was to be married, then told me that there were too many people coming, and if I came the numbers would not be right, but when not enough people said that they would come, she then asked me to make up the numbers which I did.
    I believe that our son DID want us to see his wedding ring, because he phoned us when he bought it with DIL, and I wanted to make them both feel special by responding that we were very happy and therefore would like to see it.
    We have never overcontrolled any of our children as we have three, but only gave them everything we could and also were always there for them and had lots of fun with them. I would not like to control anyone, only enjoy their company. We had lots of fun together and I would just like to maintain a relationship with our son and be friends with my DIL, but I think she would like to think of me as the wicked MIL, which I certainly am not.
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Aug 3, 2009, 05:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini54 View Post
    It's hard to make a judgment but it sounds as if your DIL is one of those women that likes to control their partner and that means controlling your son's interactions with the world.

    It's very hard to know how to react in a situation like this. Your first course of action may be to speak with your other children to see if their impressions are the same as yours, or if your son and DIL are only being distant with you. Also, do you know what the relationship is like with her parents?

    If you find that other children's experiences are consistent with yours, at least you will have confirmation that your DIL's coldness is not just directed at you.

    However, I suspect that there is not much that you can actually do. It is highly likely that any overtures towards your son or any questions you may ask of him will be reported to your DIL, potentially further exacerbating the situation.

    You may be best served by continuing the way that you have been. Back off a little on the phone calls but continue to have lunches with your son and DIL. Treat her like a precocious child - ignore her rude or nasty behavior and 'reward' her good behavior. Don't be drawn into any dramas created by her, as she will be sure to find ways to irritate you.

    Remember that your son has to live with her (and please her) and that this is why he's probably hesitant to have a lot of contact. Just let him know that you're very happy to talk to him and see him when you can. In the end he's an adult, and this is the person he's chosen as a wife. It's his journey, and he has to deal with it.
    Thank you for your advice and response. I have discussed my DIL and son with our other children and they both think that my DIL is a very cold person. In contrast, our daughter is married to a SIL who is very friendly and always ready to become involved in any family event. Even his mother is a very friendly woman, which is in contrast to my DILs parents who are not very friendly. We spent a weekend with them a few months ago, as well as with our son and DIL, and asked them to visit us for a barbecue, but neither of DIL's parents really responded.
    Yes, she does try to find ways to irritate especially me, such as yawning when I speak when we do meet for lunch, which is also very hurtful.
    I do understand that it is his journey, but it breaks my heart to think that this lovely person who is my son, who used to be very friendly has now become and is becoming even more a very nervous person, but hopefully will change the route of his journey one day and tell my DIL to NOT BE SO DOMINATING.
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Nov 15, 2009, 11:29 PM
    Daughter in law problems again
    As usual I feel totally unloved and a person who only deserves unfriendliness given to her by my son and daughter in law. Its getting worse and worse and just let me tell you why I feel this way. Our son used to call us at least once a week, just to say hello and we did the same. Now that he has been married for a year we rarely hear from him or see him. If we do see him he is always angry, such as when I try to take family photos who no one except family will see... he snatched the camera off me so that I could not take any photos. My husband got the camera back and we took other family photos, our other children really don't mind having their photo taken. The irony of this is that DIL and our son post photos of their holidays on Facebook and that is totally OK. They went on holidays recently with DIL's "gay" friend and another woman for DIL's birthday. They asked if we would take them to the airport, and during the trip they told us "that they are not taking their mobile phones", but that we could pick them up from the airport when they returned. However, on the day of their return we got a call on my mobile phone to say that they are arriving one hour early, so we hurried our trip along as we were away for the weekend so that we could meet them at the airport. We took them out a few weeks ago, and they were late to the restaurant because DIL was "having a bad hair day". Last week was their first wedding anniversary, so we left a card in their letterbox to remember the day. Our son did call when we were out of the house, and our younger son gave us that message "that he called". But I am too scared to call back, as they have an answering machine which says that they cannot take the call "at the moment", it does not matter what time we call, or if they answer they are "always having dinner" or another meal and have to go "very quickly". So, we are slowely losing contact with our elder son, as we can never call, and if we ask to meet him at lunchtime when he is at work, he is either"too busy", or his wife comes (walking from a long way), as well. Of course, we like her to come, but when she does come, we feel that we are under scrutiny, in case we say some kind words to our son. Does anyone else have these kinds of problems, and will they get better, or shall we never see or speak to our son anymore. We do not have this problem with our son in law who is always friendly, and does not worry at all if we call or speak to our daughter. Our youngest son is the same, very friendly, like our elder one used to be, until now. I would like to be friends with my DIL and have tried and tried, even when she told us she changed her mobile telephone number, we asked out of politeness if we could have it, but it has been months now and she has not given it to us, so we do not want to ask anymore. I am tired of the unfriendliness, and feel used as DIL was the one that wanted a house but they could not get a loan, so she asked if we would go as guarantors for their loan, which we did amongst many other things, only to be met with unfriendliness.
    Gemini54's Avatar
    Gemini54 Posts: 2,871, Reputation: 1116
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    #7

    Nov 16, 2009, 12:28 AM
    You've posted about this issue before, and I really, really feel for you. Sadly I do not have any advice that will help your DIL warm to you or make the situation better.

    The only advice I have is acceptance. You may need to make a real effort to accept that things may never be any different as far as your relationship with your DIL is concerned and that while he is with her, your son will be emotionally removed.

    Your DIL seems to call the shots and your son jumps through the hoops. She has chosen to distance herself from you and of course your son has to follow suit. Remember that he's the one that lives with her and has to deal with her insecurities and controlling nature on a daily basis.

    I suspect that there is little you can do to change this situation. In fact, the more you try, the worse it will get. However, what you can change is your reaction to the situation. I understand that it distresses and pains you, but try to let go of the hurt you're feeling about something over which you have so little control.

    Continue to be attentive and gracious, and continue to enjoy the company of your other children. Accept that there is distance between your son, your DIL and yourselves and make a concerted effort not to take the unfriendliness or the lack of appreciation personally.

    This is nothing to do with you! Accept that you have done your best, and more, and that sometimes in life people behave in ways that we cannot understand.
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Nov 16, 2009, 04:08 AM

    Thanks Gemini54 and Jake2008. I don't know where else to post this, but I cannot understand the thing about cutting apron strings. I just want to maintain an adult relationship with my son and DIL. I would like to have fun and conversations with them, otherwise you know your children only as children, but I would like to know mine as adults and enjoy their company. But what I really dislike is that my DIL has not cut her own apron strings with her family, and both her and her mother scrutinise me and try to make out that I am the "traditional evil mother in law", which I would never be, I just want to be friends in an adult way. It would be fun.
    Gemini54's Avatar
    Gemini54 Posts: 2,871, Reputation: 1116
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    #9

    Nov 16, 2009, 02:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazina View Post
    Thanks Gemini54 and Jake2008. I don't know where else to post this, but I cannot understand the thing about cutting apron strings. I just want to maintain an adult relationship with my son and DIL. I would like to have fun and conversations with them, otherwise you know your children only as children, but I would like to know mine as adults and enjoy their company. But what I really dislike is that my DIL has not cut her own apron strings with her family, and both her and her mother scrutinise me and try to make out that I am the "traditional evil mother in law", which I would never be, I just want to be friends in an adult way. It would be fun.
    I understand what you 'want', I really do. The thing is, the situation is not like you want it to be and you can't control how other people behave.

    I also understand that it's really hard, he's your son and you love him, but do you want to keep being in agony and unhappiness over this issue? Do you want to worry yourself to death?

    Your son may never grow to be an adult in this relationship. That is his choice. Your DIL and mother may scrutinize and comment on the things you do. It is your choice to take offense.

    You DO have a choice and your choice is acceptance. Hard as that may be.

    In the end we must accept what we can't change, or go mad.
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Nov 19, 2009, 01:53 AM

    You are awesome Gemini54. I take your advice and I will also pray to God because we never know when our last heartbeat will be and I might actually accept that I cannot change people.
    sylvan_1998's Avatar
    sylvan_1998 Posts: 156, Reputation: 45
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    #11

    Nov 19, 2009, 09:49 AM

    Remember family is thicker than most anything else. Your son may remain with this woman for the rest of his life and it will be his loss as his loss of a healthy good relationship with you.

    I have something very similar with my mother in law as she is VERY passive aggressive with me. She finally showed her two faced ness with my husband within ear shot and other things came out. Now, with the support of my husband, I have little or no contact with her. I make sure my children and husband do and go along for the ride and play nice, but I have removed myself emotionally so that she does not hurt me anymore.

    I suggest you do the same. Just remove yourself and be prepared for the comebacks. Such as when they comment rudely on a gift, say simply nicely and with a smile on your face, "gosh I really put alot of thought into this gift this year...and I still got it wrong. Maybe I will get it yet! This is a challenge I refuse to admit defeat.... But thank you for your honesty. Most people will not be so brutally honest and forgo a honest assessment in favor of acting gracious and you just never know how they feel"

    You can only control what you do. Remember the holidays, send what you think would be nice. Do not take them back to the store as that is just rude. Suggest that they can or regift or whatever, that you are sorry and you thought they would like it, but let them do the work. HOW RUDE THEY ARE!

    Call as often as you would like and leave messages. If they do not call back, that is their choice and they will have to live with it. Take the power back and do not let her ruin what you have.

    Seriously, you can only control what you do. Have confidence in what you do, be nice and understanding, but stop being a door mat. She may get angry, but to be univited then reinvited, she has no respect for his family. Next time say " Oh my, I already scheduled a root canal for that day. Wish I had known. Maybe next time! But thank you for thinking of me!"

    And I would not bail them out anymore unless absolutely necessary. To be a member of a family means you have to be a part. Sometimes the star and sometimes the benchwarmer. Keep growing as a family with your other sons and become close and tight. Leave the door open, invite them in, but remember you can not force them through
    Grazina's Avatar
    Grazina Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Nov 25, 2009, 03:57 AM

    Hi sylvan and thanks for your suggestions. Passive aggressive is a good way to describe my daughter in law. I never thought of that, and I will try and have more confidence because I do not want to do anything bad to anyone, especially my family. Good luck with your mother in law as this type of person can be very destructive.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #13

    Nov 25, 2009, 09:36 PM

    The hardest thing we can do as parents is to leave our kids alone when they are grown and act wacky against the way we raise them. For whatever reason your son is distant, be it your DIL, or anything else. Leave him alone, and let him come to you. It may be a while, a long while, but that beats the tension your going through now trying to keep him close and available to you.

    Let him go MOM, he is a man, and has to lie in his own bed.

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