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    Lmchle's Avatar
    Lmchle Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    May 31, 2009, 08:55 AM
    I'm a convicted felon
    Can I go to school for a Registered Nurse or as a Pharmacist if I'm a convicted felon. I contacted the Board of Nursing and gave her my scenario and she told me that it's a case by case determination. Can someone please tell me what I should do. I don't want to go to school and take all of this classes and be told that because Im a felon that I want be granted license. Please help!
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    May 31, 2009, 09:13 AM

    If the Board of Nursing has said it's a case by case review, I'm sure that is correct. That Board would have more info than "we" would.

    It often depends on what the original crime was as well as the State.

    You would have to ask the licensing boards, which you have done.
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #3

    May 31, 2009, 09:20 AM
    You need to get in writing that your case was reviewed and you will be licensed to work if you complete your education before you spend the money on the education. As a political scientist I have found that government bureaucracies often have people who give conflicting advice (see the IRS) but if you have a written statement from them beforehand saying that you will be granted a license then an individual within the bureau who may be disinclined to grant you a license will be bound by a previous finding.
    Lmchle's Avatar
    Lmchle Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #4

    May 31, 2009, 09:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    You need to get in writing that your case was reviewed and you will be licensed to work if you complete your education before you spend the money on the education. As a political scientist I have found that government bureaucracies often have people who give conflicting advice (see the IRS) but if you have a written statement from them beforehand saying that you will be granted a license then an individual within the bureau who may be disinclined to grant you a license will be bound by a previous finding.
    Okay Im not understanding exactly what you are sayiny. When I called the board she only said each case is reviewed case by case. No one is saying that they will grant a license. I don't think no one will say that to only have their foot put in their mouth.
    justcurious55's Avatar
    justcurious55 Posts: 4,360, Reputation: 790
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    #5

    May 31, 2009, 09:45 AM

    JudyKay was right. If the board says its case by case that's what it is.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #6

    May 31, 2009, 10:38 AM

    Hello L:

    If your crime was one of moral turpitude (stealing), or drugs, I don't think they're going to grant you a license...

    If it was something else, you MIGHT be able to get licensed.. However, BEFORE I spent the money for an education, I'd hire a lawyer. After an investigation, he can best assess whether you'll be licensed. Nobody is going to know for sure. But, if your felony was a LONG time ago, and you have a great work, and family history since then, you have a shot.

    If they have any doubts about you, tell 'em I said to go ahead.

    excon
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #7

    May 31, 2009, 12:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Lmchle View Post
    Okay Im not understanding exactly what you are sayiny. When I called the board she only said each case is reviewed case by case. No one is saying that they will grant a license. I dont think no one will say that to only have their foot put in their mouth.
    You should send a letter to the board stating your case and request that you be issued a finding based upon their policy. You really need to have that pre-approval in writing or you may lose a lot of money. If it is not in writing, you have no guarantee that you will be certified once your education is completed.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #8

    May 31, 2009, 02:39 PM

    Hello Sailor:

    I've never seen a board say what they WOULD do IF. They only decide what they're GOING to do because of what's so. They are NOT in the business of prognostication, and they WON'T do it.

    Getting an education is much different than applying for stuff based upon IF you got an education.

    excon
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #9

    May 31, 2009, 02:58 PM
    Having served on a board I have received requests similar to this but not often enough. A three person review board such as myself and two others looked at the situation and made a decision. Our job was usually made easier by someone who came to us beforehand and requested a finding and we were usually more lenient in these (rare) cases.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,277, Reputation: 5644
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    #10

    May 31, 2009, 03:05 PM
    Let me also say that the Board may grant you a license, but the institution may not employ you.

    Most nursing facilities do a background search yearly, I am going through mine again now, and they do not hire people with felonies, or certain misdemeanors. This includes the housekeeping department as well.
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #11

    May 31, 2009, 03:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello Sailor:

    I've never seen a board say what they WOULD do IF. They only decide what they're GOING to do because of what's so. They are NOT in the business of prognostication, and they WON'T do it.

    Getting an education is much different than applying for stuff based upon IF you got an education.

    excon
    All political government bodies have a defined policy and procedures manual with the determining policy stated. If a policy says "no," they will tell the applicant flat out "NO." If it says "Yes," they will tell the applicant "Yes." If it is vague, they will discuss it (usually endlessly) where one person may say "yes" and another may say "no." For a case by case basis, the answer is usually easy to come by. As for hiring a lawyer to research the situation, he will do the same thing I advised by sending a letter asking for finding only he will charge by the hour for doing so.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #12

    May 31, 2009, 04:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    If it is vague, they will discuss it (usually endlessly) where one person may say "yes" and another may say "no.".. ....For a case by case basis, the answer is usually easy to come by.
    Hello again, Sailor:

    I stand by my previous post.

    The answer WILL be easy to come by WHEN she applies - NOT before.

    Clearly, there's discretion involved in the decision. I have NEVER met a bureaucrat who would commit to a discretionary decision based upon WHAT IF.

    They DON'T do that. Never have - never will.

    excon
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #13

    May 31, 2009, 04:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Sailor:

    I stand by my previous post.

    The answer WILL be easy to come by WHEN she applies - NOT before.

    Clearly, there's discretion involved in the decision. I have NEVER met a bureaucrat who would commit to a discretionary decision based upon WHAT IF.

    They DON'T do that. Never have - never will.

    excon
    I disagree, having been a bureaucrat in just this same situation. Often the answer is easy to get and one simply needs to ask for it. Rather than advise somebody to do nothing or hire a lawyer to do nothing, she can ask the agency for a finding based upon their current policy. Never give a bureaucrat a chance to pass the buck. Having been on both sides I have to say a lot of time and effort and money can be saved by asking first. The policy will be the same and can be addressed early rather than late thus removing the financial risk. As for they "don't do that. Never have- never will," I have done that when somebody was smart enough to ask. 'What if" is not the question, "what exactly is the policy?" is the question! Would you seriously advise somebody to spend a lot of money on something and wait until later to find out if she is even eligible to be licensed? Of course, its not your money so its easy to say she should take that risk, isn't it?

    There are only two courses of action one can take... 1. do nothing and proceed with your education in the field of choice and risk never being able to get licensed, or 2. Send them a letter (or pay a lawyer a fee to do so on your behalf) asking for a finding before your go to school. You have to decide if the risk is worth it!
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #14

    Jun 1, 2009, 07:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    Having served on a board I have received requests similar to this but not often enough. A three person review board such as myself and two others looked at the situation and made a decision. Our job was usually made easier by someone who came to us beforehand and requested a finding and we were usually more lenient in these (rare) cases.


    And what type of license board did you sit on - nursing or Pharmacy? My late husband served on the Pharmacy board. These requests were submitted somewhat frequently. The rule of thumb was that there were NO pre-approvals, not even conditional approvals. The "rules" for licensing were in writing and easily understood. There were no exceptions.

    There also was no time/money/interest in doing extensive background checks pre-application for licensing.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #15

    Jun 1, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    I disagree, having been a bureaucrat in just this same situation.
    Hello again, Sailor:

    You have convinced me of only ONE thing. Bureaucrats are bonkers.

    excon
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #16

    Jun 1, 2009, 09:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    And what type of license board did you sit on - nursing or Pharmacy? My late husband served on the Pharmacy board. These requests were submitted somewhat frequently. The rule of thumb was that there were NO pre-approvals, not even conditional approvals. The "rules" for licensing were in writing and easily understood. There were no exceptions.

    There also was no time/money/interest in doing extensive background checks pre-application for licensing.
    Some people are barking up the wrong tree here. Rule of thumb is there are policy and procedures in every governmental agency which spell out what is and what is not acceptable grounds for exemptions to the rule. Rather than telling her this is "case-by-case" and that she should risk her money, she should have been given the policy as stated along with its rules for exemptions. If she meets the criteria then she has nothing to worry about, if she does not then she shouldn't waste her money. Now, as some of the other "advocates" (excon) here have suggested, she could hire an attorney to "research" the case and have the lawyer advise her on her chances (which has absolutely no guarantee and costs a lot of money) or she can do her own research (for free) by telling the board in writing what her circumstances are and asking what the policy is in this case. Rather than attacking my credentials because your late husband served on a pharmacy board, attack my argument (I am truly sorry for your loss). I have not heard any advice that answers this persons question other than pay a lawyer for doing what she can do herself for free. I have advised her to do for free what one of my detractors advised her to hire an attorney for. My advice is a little bit more than the "do nothing" everybody else has advised so far and could possibly have some positive outcome.

    Oh, since its important to you, I have served on three boards in my time (Aviation, Maritime , and Medical--these were for contracts or research grants) and one stint as a legislative assistant in the United States Senate writing laws back in the 80's. I have also been on the short end of the stick as I wished to become an Air Transport Pilot and my color-blindness was a problem with the FAA. I submitted a letter in advance stating my problem and a willingness to undergo testing to see if they would allow an exemption (there were clearly stated grounds for exemptions based upon proven ability which I received in response to my letter). I failed the test as my color-blindness was enough of a hindrance at night thus saving me the agony of mispending a lot of money. The fact is I did send that letter prior to spending a lot of money and got a detailed letter back stating what the policy was, what the exemptions were and how to go about getting an exemption. I could have hired a lawyer to do so for me but I felt capable of doing that myself. I have walked the walk and am advising this person based upon my own experience as both an applicant and a board member and not based upon assumptions. Rather than name calling and insults and self-righteous indignation and character attacks, how about looking at my argument based upon the facts of the argument alone... she has these options as I see them...

    1. do nothing, give up on the dream.
    2. send a letter to the board asking what exactly is the policy as it would apply to her.
    3. hire an attorney to research for her (do number 2) and advise her his findings.
    4. spend a lot of money on the education without knowing in advance if she even has a chance and be told at the end a)"yes" or b)"no". (risky in my book)

    What exactly are you folks advocating here? Any advice other than number 2 or 3 is irresponsible! Excon advised number 3 at one time, I advised number 2 and not pay the lawyer. I assume the person asking the question is capable of writing that letter otherwise she shouldn't be trying to get into nursing or pharmacy school. What exactly is your advice to her?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #17

    Jun 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    Rather than telling her this is "case-by-case" and that she should risk her money, she should have been given the policy as stated along with its rules for exemptions. If she meets the criteria then she has nothing to worry about, if she does not then she shouldn't waste her money. Now, as some of the other "advocates" (excon) here have suggested, she could hire an attorney to "research" the case and have the lawyer advise her on her chances
    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...on-115783.html

    Hello again, Sailor:

    I referred you to the above post so that you can see that I'm a policy and procedures manual man, myself...

    My supposition was based on the clerk having told the OP the truth, in that given her situation, the decision would in fact BE based on the particular case...

    I'm not familiar with the criteria for acquiring a nursing credential. If its, indeed, cut and dried, then I agree with you. It wouldn't surprise me, however, to hear that she was told that gobbeldy gook from the person she spoke with on the phone. My problem was that I believed it too.

    Maybe the best way would be, as I recommend in MY area of expertise, is to simply ask to see the written policies, and then she can make her own determination.

    However, IF there IS wiggle room in the boards decision, and I frankly don't know of ANY board where there isn't, I stand by my earlier advice...

    excon
    SailorMark's Avatar
    SailorMark Posts: 48, Reputation: 7
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    #18

    Jun 1, 2009, 10:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...on-115783.html

    It wouldn't surprise me, however, to hear that she was told that gobbeldy gook from the person she spoke with on the phone. My problem was that I believed it too.

    excon
    You hit the nail on the head with this! All too often the person on the other end of the line is a bureaucrat trying to get someone off the phone so they can clock out and go home or go to lunch. Rather than give you great customer service (and increase their work load), give gobbeldygook and get to the restaurant in time to get the cheap margaritas.

    Sailor
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #19

    Jun 1, 2009, 10:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    Some people are barking up the wrong tree here. Rule of thumb is there are policy and procedures in every governmental agency which spell out what is and what is not acceptable grounds for exemptions to the rule. Rather than telling her this is "case-by-case" and that she should risk her money, she should have been given the policy as stated along with its rules for exemptions. If she meets the criteria then she has nothing to worry about, if she does not then she shouldn't waste her money. Now, as some of the other "advocates" (excon) here have suggested, she could hire an attorney to "research" the case and have the lawyer advise her on her chances (which has absolutely no guarantee and costs a lot of money) or she can do her own research (for free) by telling the board in writing what her circumstances are and asking what the policy is in this case. Rather than attacking my credentials because your late husband served on a pharmacy board, attack my argument (I am truly sorry for your loss). I have not heard any advice that answers this persons question other than pay a lawyer for doing what she can do herself for free. I have advised her to do for free what one of my detractors advised her to hire an attorney for. My advice is a little bit more than the "do nothing" everybody else has advised so far and could possibly have some positive outcome.

    Oh, since its important to you, I have served on three boards in my time (Aviation, Maritime , and Medical--these were for contracts or research grants) and one stint as a legislative assistant in the United States Senate writing laws back in the 80's. I have also been on the short end of the stick as I wished to become an Air Transport Pilot and my color-blindness was a problem with the FAA. I submitted a letter in advance stating my problem and a willingness to undergo testing to see if they would allow an exemption (there were clearly stated grounds for exemptions based upon proven ability which I received in response to my letter). I failed the test as my color-blindness was enough of a hindrance at night thus saving me the agony of mispending a lot of money. The fact is I did send that letter prior to spending a lot of money and got a detailed letter back stating what the policy was, what the exemptions were and how to go about getting an exemption. I could have hired a lawyer to do so for me but I felt capable of doing that myself. I have walked the walk and am advising this person based upon my own experience as both an applicant and a board member and not based upon assumptions. Rather than name calling and insults and self-righteous indignation and character attacks, how about looking at my argument based upon the facts of the argument alone....she has these options as I see them...

    1. do nothing, give up on the dream.
    2. send a letter to the board asking what exactly is the policy as it would apply to her.
    3. hire an attorney to research for her (do number 2) and advise her his findings.
    4. spend a lot of money on the education without knowing in advance if she even has a chance and be told at the end a)"yes" or b)"no". (risky in my book)

    What exactly are you folks advocating here? Any advice other than number 2 or 3 is irresponsible! Excon advised number 3 at one time, I advised number 2 and not pay the lawyer. I assume the person asking the question is capable of writing that letter otherwise she shouldn't be trying to get into nursing or pharmacy school. What exactly is your advice to her?

    I find your sarcasm to be unnecessary - people ask me for my credentials all the time. I don't take it as "name calling, insults and self-righteous indigniation and character attacks." I assume they want to know where I'm coming from.

    I in no way "attacked your credentials" (and I'd like to see where I did that) because my late husband served on a Pharmacy Board. I find your response to be juvenile. And thanks for your expression of sympathy.

    In the same tone you used, good for you and your Air Transport License. That isn't the question - the question is Nursing and Pharmacy. Other than a brief autobiography, however fascinating, I don't find that you answered the very same question you accused me of not answering.

    When you are around a little longer you will learn that many people who post have no idea how to do their own research OR do the research, add one and one and get three. Not saying this is the case with OP but it seems apparent that she asked no further questions and hasn't spoken with admissions wherever she intends to go to school to see if she can be licensed. Maybe she can find the info. Maybe she can't. I don't know and neither do you.

    My advice is exactly what I said the first time around - believe the Nursing Boards. If they say it's case by case, does OP want to roll the dice, pay for an education and not be licensed?

    And without knowing what the felony is, it's IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to know what the case-by-case review will decide. If drugs and/or theft were involved I don't see any chance of a license in either profession.
    liz28's Avatar
    liz28 Posts: 4,662, Reputation: 1034
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    #20

    Jun 1, 2009, 10:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by SailorMark View Post
    You hit the nail on the head with this! All too often the person on the other end of the line is a bureaucrat trying to get someone off the phone so they can clock out and go home or go to lunch. Rather than give you great customer service (and increase their work load), give gobbeldygook and get to the restaurant in time to get the cheap margaritas.

    Sailor
    It happens all the time. I couldn't rate you but I couldn't agree more.

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