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    hideez's Avatar
    hideez Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Feb 9, 2005, 09:52 PM
    non-human animals
    Do Non-human animals have values and beliefs?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member

    Feb 10, 2005, 05:20 AM
    Do they have a conscience?
    lilfyre's Avatar
    lilfyre Posts: 508, Reputation: 98
    Senior Member

    Jul 7, 2005, 06:04 PM
    Chimpanzee have learned to use tools to get to termite, I would say yes. You have to believe in something if you can figure out how to use a tool.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
    Uber Member

    Jul 7, 2005, 09:19 PM
    If you don't think animals have values and beliefs, you haven't seen my Aster if I open the freezer and forget to give her an ice cube.
    Whuffle's Avatar
    Whuffle Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Aug 10, 2005, 09:06 AM
    Two comments:

    1) Various studies have shown that some animals have the ability to lie or decieve (eg hide some bananas under a box while a rival watches, then move them as soon as their back is turned.)
    Furthermore, the same species are able to project the possablilty that they are a victim of deciept, and respond... which often then leads to a double-bluff etc etc.

    All of the above requires imaginiation, invention, etc, and social awareness: the number one reason for large groups of primates developing larger brains to handle political and social alliances, plotting, power-games etc.

    I would maintain that these skills what lead to "wider" consciousness, a belief in what is or is not "right" in a wider sense that may not be immediately beneficial to the individual.

    My second comment:

    2) What beliefs do you refer to? There is a strong argument to suggest that our OWN moral beliefs are simply an instinctive reaction to preserve genetic stability within the species. There isn't room to give the full argument for this here, but believe me when I say that even if you don't accept the idea, it is VERY hard to disprove... in which case, perhaps other non-human animals do not have a wider belief system... just that we have a narrower one tan we give outselves credit-for.

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