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CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 2, 2008, 07:29 AM

According to the 10 commandments we shall not make a carved image-any likeness of anything that is in the heaven above.Wouldnt a picture or a carving in church or home be considered a sin?Jesus is in heaven according to the Bible and our beliefs.I have always felt it is in faith we worship him.I had never felt comfortable with pictures or carvings of him nor Mary. I feel like I'm sinning if I do.

RickJ · Sep 2, 2008, 07:35 AM

We shall not worship anything other than God.

How about "carvings" of crosses... like are seen in most Christian Churches? Are you OK with that?

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 2, 2008, 07:43 AM

I don't have any crosses in my house either.Just because I don't know if it is all right or not.

Credendovidis · Sep 2, 2008, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

Is it a sin to worship a picture, painting or carving of Jesus? ...//.. I had never felt comfortable with pictures or carvings of him nor Mary. I feel like im sinning if i do.

Can you please state WHY you feel that way ?
Sounds to me that you are wasting your life away worrying about if you are sinning or not.
What is the purpose of life, if you do not live it to the fullest ?

:>)

.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 2, 2008, 09:30 AM

I do live my life to the fullest.But at the same time I am trying to do what I believe is right. Ever since I was young I have felt this way.I would go to church every Sunday with my parents and brother, and all I kept thinking about was all of the people around me praying while looking at a huge wall carving of Jesus. I thought what if all these people were actually sinning considering that carving is of someone in the heavens.Right below the carving was the Ten Commandments written out on a large piece of board.All I did was put 2 and 2 together and started thinking about it.I have met many others that wonder the same thing I do.

BlakeCory · Sep 2, 2008, 09:57 AM

CHRISTOPHER ROBIN,

Worshipping a cross or a statue of Jesus would be just as wrong as worshipping a statue of anything else. Using the picture or a statue as a reminder is not wrong and that is the motive in most churches. It is a symbol of what we worship but it is NOT what we worship.

In the Screwtape Letters, a fictional story about a demon (Screwtape) talking to his nephew, C S Lewis wrote this about the subject:

“Humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes the background of permanent pain to our lives. If you look into your patients mind when he is praying, you will not find that. If you examine the object to which he is attending, you will find that it is a composite object containing many quite ridiculous ingredients. There will be images derived from pictures of the enemy as He appeared during the discreditable episode known as the Incarnation: there will be vaguer- perhaps quite savage and puerile- images associated with the other two Persons. There will even be some of his own reverence (and the bodily sensation accompanying it) objectified and attributed to the object revered. I have known cases where what the patient called his 'God' was actually located-up and to the left at the corner of the bedroom ceiling, or inside his own head, or in a crucifix on the wall. But whatever the nature of the composite object, you must keep him praying to it-to the thing that he has made, not to the Person who has made him."

The real danger is not with objects but with the mind. It is how you perceive God that matters. Pray not to the god of your mind's imagination but to the one true God. This is the message of the Bible.

- BC

Fr_Chuck · Sep 2, 2008, 05:19 PM

Yes the worshiping of any statue or photo is wrong. But then I don't know any of the major religions that want you to worship them, The Orthodox Church has and uses more ICONs that any other denomination that I know of. They are used to help remind you of the life of great religious people, and to bring you a love and closeness of God.

I will be honest I may recommend where ever you have been getting so much of this off based religious teachings, start looking up facts on the churches web sites,

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 5, 2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

yes the worshiping of any statue or photo is wrong. But then I don't know any of the major religions that want you to worship them, The Orthodox Church has and uses more ICONs that any other denomination that I know of. They are used to help remind you of the life of great religious poeple, and to bring you a love and closeness of God.

I will be honest I may recommend where ever you have been getting so much of this off based religious teachings, start looking up facts on the churches web sites,

Do you mean facts like people bowing before the pope, the kissing of his ring.Catholics do this and the last time I checked the pope wasn't God.The pope bows before a statue of Mary. That would be worshiping a false idol, as far as I know.Theres a lot of denominations and only one true God.Somethings not right.

De Maria · Sep 5, 2008, 07:31 PM

Those are just your assumptions about things which you don't understand.

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

Do you mean facts like people bowing before the pope,

We bow before the Pope because he represents Christ:
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice that Jesus gave Simon the name that represents Himself:
1 Corinthians 10 4 And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)

the kissing of his ring.

We kiss the Pope's ring, every Bishop's ring, for the same reason. They represent Christ to us:
1 Corinthians 4 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

Catholics do this and the last time I checked the pope wasn't God.

But Jesus is God and Jesus appointed the Pope to represent Him on this earth. Just a God appointed Moses to represent Him in the Old Testament:
Exodus 7 1 And the Lord said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharao: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The pope bows before a statue of Mary.

Sure does. Because she is Jesus' mother. The Queen of Heaven:
3 Kings 2 19 Then Bethsabee came to king Solomon, to speak to him for Adonias: and the king arose to meet her, and bowed to her, and sat down upon his throne: and a throne was set for the king's mother, and she sat on his right hand.

That would be worshiping a false idol, as far as I know

.

No. A worshipping a false idol would be to pretend that the idol were God. We know that Mary is not God. We simply venerate Mary as we see the Angel of God do in Scripture:
Luke 1 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

There's a lot of denominations and only one true God.Somethings not right.

That's true. God has provided a Church which He says is infallible:
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And which He expects us to obey:
Matthew 18 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

But some men insist on doing what they want rather than what God wants.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Credendovidis · Sep 6, 2008, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

Do you mean facts like people bowing before the pope, the kissing of his ring.Catholics do this and the last time i checked the pope wasnt God.The pope bows before a statue of Mary. That would be worshiping a false idol, as far as i know.Theres alot of denominations and only one true God.Somethings not right.

Christopher : "there are a lot of ways that lead to Rome". An old saying but still correct.
If you feel that "people bowing before the pope, the kissing of his ring, the pope bowing before a statue of Mary, etc. does not agree with your religious views, than just don't do that.

But why should other people believe exactly the same way as you do?

The essence of Christianity is not in words or habits or customs, but in deeds.
It is about how you live your life, how and what you believe, and how you treat others.

You may believe in one "true God". But with so many christian denominations fighting each other about who is the "true follower" of that "true God" it seems that the message and mission of Christianity itself has gone totally lost.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Fr_Chuck · Sep 6, 2008, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

Do you mean facts like people bowing before the pope, the kissing of his ring.Catholics do this and the last time i checked the pope wasnt God.The pope bows before a statue of Mary. That would be worshiping a false idol, as far as i know.Theres alot of denominations and only one true God.Somethings not right.

Let me see if you are in the US, do you stand and put your hand over your heart
For the national anthem, are you worshiping the flag.

No people show respect to the Pope, they show him honor, and
People give reverence to mary, it is not worship. It is merely you totally
Misunderstand what they are doing. This is not to say a few people don't do it wrong, since they like you misunderstand, But no they are not woshiping the Pope, or Mary

Fr_Chuck · Sep 6, 2008, 07:12 AM

You see to have fear, fear that anything is going to be wrong if you do anything about religion. Worshiping of Chrsit should not be anything that has fear in it, If you are scared to have a cross in your home, because it could be a worship, somewhere someone has given you so much fear that you can not find the love that you are suppose to find.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 6, 2008, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Let me see if you are in the US, do you stand and put your hand over your heart
for the national anthem, are you worshiping the flag.

No people show respect to the Pope, they show him honor, and
people give reverence to mary, it is not worship. It is merely you totally
misunderstand what they are doing. This is not to say a few people don't do it wrong, since they like you misunderstand, But no they are not woshiping the Pope, or Mary

You are worshipping the flag in my opinion.I PLEDGE ALLEGANCE TO THE FLAG.My allegance is with no other than God and His son Jesus.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 6, 2008, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

You see to have fear, fear that anything is going to be wrong if you do anything about religion. Worshiping of Chrsit should not be anything that has fear in it, If you are scared to have a cross in your home, because it could be a worship, somewhere someone has given you so much fear that you can not find the love that youare suppose to find.

For God is a jealous god.Fear Him.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 6, 2008, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

For God is a jealous god.Fear Him.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Dueteronomy 10:12, 20:21 what does the Lord your God require from you, but to fear the Lord your God. So my answer is YES FEAR THE LORD.

worfpunk · Sep 6, 2008, 01:00 PM

I'm going to state this from a Christian point of view, although the situation is the same for all religions:

Here's the problem with worshiping a picture or statue: You're supposed to understand that God and Jesus are right there in the room with you, any time you ask them to be. You don't need to go through an image of them to get to them. You can cut out the "middleman", and speak directly to the source. They are right there, ready to listen. In the same way, you don't need to go through any pope/bishop/priest to get to God. Just start talking to him, he's already listening.

The real God, is the LIVING God. He's right here, right now, right this minute.

That is why, in the ten commandments, we were told not to create any image of God, because it is a human's natural tendency to start worshiping, and becoming obsessed by, the image, thinking that they need to have that image with them to be close to God. We are supposed to understand that the living God is right there with us, whether we have a pretty picture of Him or not.
That's one way in which wars start. Somebody makes an image of God, somebody else thinks that they need to have that image in their possession to be closer to God, so people start killing each other over an object which has no intrinsic value.

Someday man will realize that the entire universe is God's church, and that we don't need to "go to church", and we don't need to listen to any old white men in funny hats to be close to the Supreme Being.

You don't get to God by reading a book, you get to God by looking inside yourself. He's right there, waiting for you to discover Him.

worfpunk · Sep 6, 2008, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Dueteronomy 10:12, 20:21 what does the Lord your God require from you, but to fear the Lord your God. So my answer is YES FEAR THE LORD.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN, please. Come on now. God Is LOVE. A Supreme Being does NOT need to you fear Him.
He's the Supreme Being. He knows and has experienced more than you probably ever will or could.
We are such small minded beings compared to The One True God, anything we do probably just seems silly, and actually, even cute, to Him. (Although I'm sure war and rape and child abuse do not seem "cute" to Him, most of the range of human foibles, I'm sure, do.) He knows we're going to fall down, He knows we're going to fail Him and ourselves.
BUT, He also knows where this is all leading, and He knows that, no matter what we do, this is all going to end in a beautiful reconnection of the fragmenting of His consciousness that began this cute little play that we call history, and the physical universe. (THAT is "The Wedding" that Jesus referrers to in the Gospels.)

When you feel love well up in your heart, be it for a person, or your favorite pet, or whatever, THAT is the part of God that you carry with you, momentarily welling up inside you, filling you with His presence.

Honestly, God does NOT need you to fear Him. He just wants you to get to know Him.
Remember, the love that God feels for you is deeper, and more pure, than the love you would feel for even your own children.

Remember also, that even the Pope himself said that we must look to the Bible for "Faith, NOT FACTS". That's straight from the Pope's mouth.
It's a book of man, ABOUT God. It is NOT God's Book.

The Book that God wrote, well, we call that "The Known Universe" (and beyond). And, I got to say, I'm a huge fan of His writing.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 6, 2008, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by worfpunk

CHRISTOPHEROBIN, please. Come on now. God Is LOVE. A Supreme Being does NOT need to you fear Him.
He's the Supreme Being. He knows and has experienced more than you probably ever will or possibly could.
We are such small minded beings compared to The One True God, anything we do probably just seems silly, and actually, even cute, to Him. (Although I'm sure war and rape and child abuse do not seem "cute" to Him, most of the range of human foibles, I'm sure, do.) He knows we're going to fall down, He knows we're going to fail Him and ourselves.
BUT, He also knows where this is all leading, and He knows that, no matter what we do, this is all going to end in a beautiful reconnection of the fragmenting of His consciousness that began this cute little play that we call history, and the physical universe. (THAT is "The Wedding" that Jesus referrers to in the Gospels.)

When you feel love well up in your heart, be it for a person, or your favorite pet, or whatever, THAT is the part of God that you carry with you, momentarily welling up inside you, filling you with His presence.

Honestly, God does NOT need you to fear Him. He just wants you to get to know Him.
Remember, the love that God feels for you is deeper, and more pure, than the love you would feel for even your own children.

Remember also, that even the Pope himself said that we must look to the Bible for "Faith, NOT FACTS". That's straight from the Pope's mouth.
It's a book of man, ABOUT God. It is NOT God's Book.

The Book that God wrote, well, we call that "The Known Universe" (and beyond). And, I gotta say, I'm a huge fan of His writing.

My answer is taken from His book.Why would you call Him a liar.Sure you didn't use the word liar, but you are turning your back on His word.Your are some fan,cant even follow what u read.Im not here to judge, that's His job.Im here to follow His Word.

CHRISTOPHEROBIN · Sep 6, 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

My answer is taken from His book.Why would you call Him a liar.Sure you didnt use the word liar, but you are turning your back on His word.Your are some fan,cant even follow what u read.Im not here to judge, thats His job.Im here to follow His Word.

If you truly believe what you say, then next time you pray to the Almighty tell Him that you don't fear him.He can do more than we could ever imagine, that is reason enough to fear Him.

worfpunk · Sep 6, 2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHEROBIN

My answer is taken from His book.Why would you call Him a liar.Sure you didnt use the word liar, but you are turning your back on His word.Your are some fan,cant even follow what u read.Im not here to judge, thats His job.Im here to follow His Word.

HIS WORD? Did you even read what I said?
I'll say it again:
The Bible is a book of man ABOUT GOD. Look to THE BOOK for "FAITH, NOT FACTS".
The Bible is an awesome book. There is so much wisdom in it. It can really help a person when they are in a time of need or are questioning things, but it was written by men ABOUT GOD.
God 'wrote' this reality we exist in, then we wrote a book trying to explain it.
That is the truth.

And, yeah, just to be clear, I did not, and would NEVER call God a liar, don't put words in the mouth of a true believer.
(By the way, I have to get going to work, but I'll check back tonight, if you'd like to continue this discussion.)

God be with you my friend.