[arcura]

From the New Jerusalem Bible
Luke 11:5. He also said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend and goes to him in the middle of the night to say, `My friend, lend me three loaves,
6. because a friend of mine on his travels has just arrived at my house and I have nothing to offer him;'
7. and the man answers from inside the house, `Do not bother me. The door is bolted now, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot get up to give it to you.'
8. I tell you, if the man does not get up and give it to him for friendship's sake, persistence will make him get up and give his friend all he wants.
Effective prayer.....
9. `So I say to you: Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you.
10. For everyone who asks receives; everyone who searches finds; everyone who knocks will have the door opened.
11. What father among you, if his son asked for a fish, would hand him a snake?
12. Or if he asked for an egg, hand him a scorpion?
13. If you then, evil as you are, know how to give your children what is good, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

[jakester]

Hey, again, arcura -

I'm wondering what you mean by the question, "Do you pray effectively?" That can be misleading, perhaps, in my estimation.

My argument is that to be effective in prayer is to simply be a child of God. The theology of the Old Testament believers and New Testament writers is that God does not answer the prayers of sinners (those that are not His own). Let me explain.

Jesus instructed His disciples not to pray as the Gentiles do (unbelievers) who think that they will be heard because of their lofty words or babbling. Even the Pharisees loved to pray publicly and be seen by men, but Jesus saw right through the phoniness of these people and understood that real prayer to God comes from the privacy of the mind and heart of a person.

Conversely, to the one who is genuinely interested in the things of God, namely eternal life, if such a person were to ask God for mercy and forgiveness, God will not withhold that from him/her. On the contrary, God is more than willing to give that person a good thing... again, mercy and forgiveness. Jesus is using very absurd illustrations to get his point across. Would a father who loved his son give him a snake instead of a fish, when his son was hungry? Of course not! That would be unthinkable. And yet, for many people this is how they view God. They view Him with suspicion. They ask, "If God is good, how come there is so much suffering in the world?" But the writer of Hebrews notes that, he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek Him. I'm not making a case for prosperity claims or "name it and claim it" theology here. Again, my argument is that God is ultimately interested in granting erternal life to those who desire it from the heart; those who want their sins forgiven.

Lastly, it's my understanding that the idea of being diligent in seeking God is not really about how often I seek Him or how much sincerity I can muster up. Actually, I think it's more about the condition of my heart. Let me illustrate. Suppose, I wanted something from God. I go and say, "God, if you are really there, heal my sick daughter who has cancer." My daughter never gets well and in the end she succumbs to the illness. If I shake my fist at God and say "I'll never believe in you...go to hell!", then I am lacking in diligence. But, if my response is more like, "God if it's your will, please heal my daughter", then my heart is rightly oriented towards God. And if my daughter passes away and my response is "it was not His will but praise be to God", then I would have confidence in saying that I am like the person in Hebrews... diligently seeking Him. So, again, it's not about mustering up this kind of superman-like sincerity and discipline in my prayer, it's about my attitude towards God when I do pray. Do I believe He is good and rewards those who diligently seek Him or do I have a hard time believing He's good to begin with but I'm going to see if I can rub the genie lamp one time and get what I'm looking for. They are two different people... one will be heard from God and the other won't.

[sndbay]

jakester, The reality our heart and mind in choice, you have it right. Christ taught us to pray, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven. When that becomes the reality of prayer for people, then Our Father who knows the hearts and minds of His children, will answer as He has promised.

Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Instead God tells us: thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.

Isa 43:25 I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

So why would we "not" honour and praise Him daily for His promises, and put what He has done for us in remembrance of His love. Knowing that we were created for His pleasure, and give our love in return for all that He has done for us.

God does ask Us:
Isa 43:26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

Glory and Honour Forever and Ever
Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.

~a child of God

[arcura]

jakester,
Thanks for your input on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred