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    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
    Senior Member

    Jun 25, 2007, 08:58 AM
    Pressure point fighting
    Has anyone here studied pressure point fighting (ei: chin na and kyushyo jutsu)? What do you think of the efficacy of pressure point fighting. I have been studying some books on the subject, and find it interesting, but I am wondering about its practiality and application to a street-fighting scenario. I have studied some of the pressure points and meridians of the accupressure and accupuncture systems, so I know that the pressure points do work. After all, if a pressure point can be used to regulate heart rhythm, it can also be used to deregulate it. If pressure points can be used to control pain they can be used to cause pain as well. That's logical. But are the applications of these fighting systems practical in a real fight?

    Any opinions are appreciated.

    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
    Uber Member

    Jun 25, 2007, 10:02 AM
    If you are smaller, You need to be fast. Knees and elbows for up close, Bigger people usually do 1 of 3 things. 1)Box, punch or kick, 2)wrestle, or 3)grab and physically try to make you see their way of thinking. Redirecting their weight, can help. You have to get to the pressure points, There are wrist locks, grapples. Speed will be your friend. Can't focus on one thing.
    Pressure points, I believe can heal also.
    eawoodall's Avatar
    eawoodall Posts: 230, Reputation: 5
    Full Member

    Dec 9, 2007, 08:35 AM
    The problem is not "do these systems work", for they work extremely well.
    The problem is without careful slow (very slowly) deliberate action, you will
    Do such serious permanent damage as to be excessive in all but the most
    Legally defensible situations! Such destruction is only for the life or death
    Situation and even then must be carefully thought out. You do not want to
    Torture, you want to survive. You do not want to cause pain without it being
    Needed, you want to escape, and harm as little as possible. Even in mere
    Sparring or practice of techniques horrible injuries can arise, so you must
    Be extremely careful. Many street fight situations do not involve people who
    Know 'how to move', or 'to move', so that pressure point fighting can be
    Effective. Or they mistakenly grab you, or apply a pressure point technique
    Themselves, and that is their mistake. Once they latch unto you, you may
    Counter without fear of them letting go, so you cannot miss.

    A kung fu saying that I have quoted before is
    The beginner blocks, the intermediate student blocks then attacks, the master
    No longer needs to block.

    I hope that helps. eawoodall
    Moose70's Avatar
    Moose70 Posts: 17, Reputation: 2
    New Member

    Aug 12, 2008, 08:04 PM
    I have been studying a northern china system for about 10 years. Pressure point fighting as you call has its place. You need an instructor to guide you. I agree with Eawoodall, where you can easily accidentally injure someone for a long time. There are many drills to practice to be able in applying pressure points to anyone. From Stratmando statement is also correct where speed is the key in most to all situations. The most important key I think is to train the body and mind to the point when you no longer need to think what to do next. Just do it. That takes lots of practice.

    schwedjesk's Avatar
    schwedjesk Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Dec 14, 2008, 08:19 PM
    It depends on what you want to do with it. Do you want an artform type of training with very limited practical applications or do you want it for self defense. All pressure point training that I have seen (I admit it is very limited) has been done where the guy stands in front of you and lets you hit him in the pressure point, and that would never happen in real life or a competition. If it were useful in a fight you would see it in the Ultimate Fighting Championship or similar events. You will get these die hard pressure point practitioners telling you that it is too dangerous to use in that situation. If they can practice it with fellow practitioners and not kill them then why not in the UFC etc. In my opinon it is more of an art like Tai Chi. There is nothing wrong with that you just have to realize its limitations. A one year Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu guy can beat a 10 pressure point guy. I guarantee it.
    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
    Senior Member

    Dec 15, 2008, 09:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by schwedjesk View Post
    If it were useful in a fight you would see it in the Ultimate Fighting Championship or similar events.
    I hate to disagree with you, but you are incorrect. UFC rules, and those of the other MMA leagues list the following "fouls"

    Fouls: [Top]
    1. Butting with the head.
    2. Eye gouging of any kind.
    3. Biting.
    4. Hair pulling.
    5. Fish hooking.
    6. Groin attacks of any kind.
    7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
    8. Small joint manipulation.
    9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
    10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
    11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
    12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
    13. Grabbing the clavicle.
    14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
    15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
    16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
    17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
    18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
    19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
    20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
    21. Spitting at an opponent.
    22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
    23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
    24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
    25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
    26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
    27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
    28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
    29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
    30. Interference by the corner.
    31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

    The ones that I bolded are rules that specifically prohibit pressure point and joint manipulation attacks. So your statement is incorrect. If these types of attacks were allowed, they certainly would be used. And in fact, in true no rules fighting (which UFC was in the beginning) such techniques are used. In fact, Royce Gracie used many pressure points and joint manipulation techniques (without people recognizing it) during the first few UFC events, before they created rules for them.

    You will get these die hard pressure point practitioners telling you that it is too dangerous to use in that situation. If they can practice it with fellow practitioners and not kill them then why not in the UFC etc.
    Hey, it's MMA that banned their use. Why not ask them?

    In my opinon it is more of an art like Tai Chi. There is nothing wrong with that you just have to realize its limitations. A one year Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu guy can beat a 10 pressure point guy. I guarantee it.
    Do you have evidence to prove it? Because I have recently seen the exact opposite... a BJJ guy who walked into a Kyusho Jutsu dojo and tried to tell the Sensei he could help him teach.

    The Sensei put him up against a friend of mine, a 2nd dan, and the BJJ guy took about 20 minutes to manage to even grab hold of the Kyusho guy. Every time he tried to grab the Kyusho guy, he got jabbed in various pressure points and was forced to let go. Even when the BJJ guy tried to shoot the Kyusho guy, the Kyusho guy jabbed him in various points on the sides and back of the neck, and forced the BJJ guy to back off. After 20 minutes, the BJJ guy managed to finally do a shooting take-down, but was never able to gain control because the Kyusho guy grabbed his fingers and bent them backward... and where the fingers go, so goes the rest of the body. Yeah, it broke the rules of MMA, but a real fight has no rules. (The teacher also pointed out that if a BJJ guy managed to get a takedown and mount someone during a bar-fight, his opponent's friends would kick the stuffing out of him as he rolled around on the ground. BJJ is great in a one-on-one fight, but street fights and bar fights are rarely just one-on-one. BJJ is almost useless against multiple opponents.)

    So I question whether your statement that a 1-year BJJ guy can beat a 10-year pressure point guy. Or perhaps the BJJ guy in question had less than 1-year of experience. :confused:

    But again, something that most BJJ and MMA guys fail to notice is that quite a few of their techniques are pressure point techniques. A T-cross arm bar is essentially an attack against the TW-12 pressure point on the back of the elbow using the hips as the fulcrum rather than the arm. A bare-naked-choke-hold is an attack against several pressure points in the neck that are used by Kyusho guys as well. A leg-lock is a joint attack that falls into the teachings of both Chin Na and Kyusho Jutsu.

    Do you really think that the best MMA fighters fail to study the anatomy of fighting... where to hit (head, body, kidneys, legs, etc.) and at what angle and with which technique? Of course they do. They aim for specific points in order to get the knockout or the TKO. THAT is pressure point fighting, whether they learn the names of the points or not. They tend to aim most often for the parts of the body where pressure points are clustered so that if they miss one, they hit another. That way they don't need the precision of a Kyusho fighter. But the theory is the same... aim for the parts of the body that are weakest, use that weakness to force the opponent into a specific position or action that gives you control over him. (ei: a body-blow that forces the opponent to double over so that you can follow up with an uppercut, or a ground-and-pound that forces the opponent to give you his back so that you can get the rear naked choke). The only difference that I see is with regard to the precission of the techniques.

    And in fact, Kyusho jutsu doesn't teach a specific fighting style... it is a concept that can be applied to any fighting style, from Grecco Roman wrestling to MMA, to Tai Chi to Karate to American boxing. It just teaches you WHERE to hit for maximum effect by giving you an understanding of anatomy and areas of greatest weakness on an opponent.

    As a side note, Muhhamud Ali used to spar with George Dillman, the person who brought pressure point fighting into American martial arts. Clearly Ali saw something that Dillman had to offer. Otherwise, why would the world's greatest boxer (at least at that time) bother with some know-nothing karate guy who had nothing to show him?

    Something to think about.
    Gav91's Avatar
    Gav91 Posts: 28, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Jan 1, 2009, 07:00 PM

    Well I find the pressure points very interesting in martial arts, I trained under Kyokushin Karate which takes the knowledge of pressure points as well as phenominal power to develop devastating blows. I have also founded TAOF (the art of fighting) a mixed martial arts group where I have developed a series of books, if you are interested I can send you a preview?
    KertAllikvee's Avatar
    KertAllikvee Posts: 16, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Jan 5, 2009, 10:22 AM

    Pressure points do not work on streets unless you can do them really fast, I am into MMA and I have studied pressure points, they didn`t work... But also pressure points have been tried on me also... those who tried them were not very happy afterwards... if you know what I mean
    Gav91's Avatar
    Gav91 Posts: 28, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Jan 5, 2009, 05:30 PM

    Again It comes down to knowing what to do, My original Karate was tested upon students from Judo, aikido, Boxing, Wrestling and MMA which is now my specialist subject.

    If you can get in the vital punch great but TAOF and Kyokushin is all about finishing the opponent and so if you miss; break their cover and strike immediately after.

    Pressure point fighting can interfere with the nervous system as well and so a solid punch/kick can knock out an opponent in one good strike or even kill. On the basis of normal Styles of martial arts (excluding TAOF and Kyokushin) it may take longer to even knock down the opponent as it is a deffensive style rather than offensive.


    -Founder of TAOF Mixed Martial Arts
    -Knockdown Coach 2005/06
    -Clicker Coach 2007
    -Co-founder of
    earl237's Avatar
    earl237 Posts: 532, Reputation: 57
    Senior Member

    Mar 2, 2009, 05:00 PM
    Hi, pressure points are not always useful in a street fight when attacked by surprise by someone larger. It is much better to make a quick strike in your attacker's eyes, throat, groin, or knees and make a quick escape. Using a small weapon such as keys or a pen is very useful. Don't worry about fighting fair or legal issues, you don't want to get hurt or killed because you are worrying about getting charged. As long as you don't hit someone when they are unconscious, you should not have any legal trouble.

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