[donf]

You make an interesting argument but as to why do I see it as a humiliation of womanhood.

Lets think of all the ways women bend, fold spindle, sit, stand to get the guy inside of them. The "hunger or lust" for the penis up to and including chocking themselves with it. Yep that says to me I am woman, respect me.

Oh and by the way, put the radio on so I can tear my clothes off and ravish you since I'm here.

We are going to have to disagree on this one. I cannot see any woman willing to debase herself as seen in these pictures as a healthy person.

Something has twisted or skewed her self wealth or self appreciation to the point where she sees herself as nothing more than a life support system for a pu** and breasts.

After all everyone she meets wants at her.

In truth, I'll probably never know. The number of porn starlets we have over for dinner or that just drop in and take advantage of poor little me is just catching up on zero!

[Synnen]

Just to play devil's advocate with you a bit (because I see your point, and I am glad you at least have a rational reason for disliking porn), since this discussion is somewhat interesting to me. And please--I'm not attacking your opinion. I just find your responses intelligent, and would like to further the discussion, if you don't mind.

Couldn't the same argument be said of the men in those movies? After all, they are narrowed down to just a penis (seriously--the male bodies and faces in porn movies are generally awful. Male porn stars are chosen for penis size only) and they generally don't get THEIR pleasure in any of it until she has taken HER pleasure every which way from Sunday.

Men in these videos are often reduced to such roles as "gardener" or "cable man" or "pool boy"--demeaning positions, making him less than the woman to begin with.

IF you accept my argument that porn debases men as much as it does women--then doesn't porn just make sex about the mechanics of the action, not the intimacy involved? If that's the case, and the people watching it KNOW that that's the case--where's the harm?

I used to get together with a group of friends, mostly male (I've never been one of those women with a lot of female friends; I enjoy the straightforwardness of men to the games so many women play) on Monday nights in college. It started as a movie night, but, being poor college students, our selection was limited by what we ourselves owned at the time. After about 5 months, we ran out of movies, and someone suggested a porn.

Let me tell you---I learned more about sex and communicating about sex from watching those movies with friends. There was never any sexual advances toward the women in the room (or toward the men from the women, either)--it was just another movie that we watched as a group and did our version of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 to. I learned that much of what is portrayed isn't even a turn on. I learned that different things turned different people on, or intrigued various people. I learned that most of the guys I knew didn't care for the lack of intimacy in the sex scenes, or expect a woman to look THAT good.

In return, the guys learned some things from us women--that sometimes there really ARE times when we just want to rip his clothes off and go at it. The different stances on spitting and swallowing, and WHY we felt that way. I've had some of those guys come back and thank me later through the years for being so frank about it, because now their wives like the TALKING in the bedroom.

So really--I think that porn, like everything else, is situational. If you're watching it alone every 3 hours to get off, and can't get off with your partner--then it's a problem. If it gives you unrealistic expectations of sex--it's a problem (but then again, I say the same thing about love movies and romance novels giving unrealistic expectations of love).

If it's watched to open communication, or to get ideas to spice up a sexual rut, or to just get off and get some sleep once in a while--I don't see a problem.

It's when it's habitual, or when it's become an addiction, that it's a problem.

PS--Just want to point out that the porn industry is actually in trouble right now. Why? Home videos on the internet of actual real people is stealing much of its clientel.

[George_1950]

Dang it, Synen, I read that entire epistle thinking you were really playing devil's advocate and were going to ask donf a question. What happened?

[Synnen]

Erm... sorry.

I think my questions were: Why is it only women objectified? Even if it IS objectification, can't porn be good if it opens communication, or makes you learn about yourself?

[George_1950]

I was just curious what kind of porn donf may be watching?

[jrebel7]

Our admiration guides our affection
Our affection guides our attitudes
Our attitudes guarantee our action

I think this is part of what we are being told by Brocksgirl. It began with viewing porn and now he is on a dating site.

What happened to the "Art of Love Making"?

Whatever you feed, grows. Spending time on porn, feeds your desire for more porn, spending time in frantic shopping, feeds your desire to shop more, spending time gambling, feeds your desire to gamble. If Brocksgirl's husband or anyone would put more into developing the "Art of Love Making", it would enhance every part of your day, in my opinion.

I am a visual person. I enjoy making love with the lights on with my husband because of this but the visual is my husband, not some guy I have watched on a movie. If we have had an argument but one of us are wanting sex, we do just have sex and it is great but it does not hold a candle to "making love". The depth of what is given and received in that context is limitless. Just the art of kissing seems to be getting lost these days.

[sugerlump]

:confused:

i have a question, my husband lovesss his porn, he works 10 hours a day then he comes home eats dinner barely talks to me then heads back to the computer room for 3 HOURS.... then i found that he is going onto these sex dating sights, should i be worried?? or is this just another way for him to get off. the thing that really bothers me is that i seen his page on this dating sight, and it says that he is seperated and that he is looking for a bad good for some good times. AND he user name is hornysailorman. i mean come on.... you see my user name i mean damn that is my user name for everthing.

a little info about us, we got married April 5 2007, im 21 he is 23, im alittle over 300lbs and he is like 220. he is 6'3 and im 5'10. we met online on eharmaney around march2005.

i am worried that it is my wight, and that he married me because he loves me for the girl that is inside, and that is grate but im worried that he does not find me sexy anymore.

some of my friends say that i should talk to him............ well i have, more times then i can count. i have told him how it hurts me and how it makes me sick. but he still does it. we can't go to conseling because we dont make that kinda money. the thing is i am the one talking, he just sitts there just looking at he tv. saying that maybe if i picked up the house alittle more then he might want to hang out in the living room more.
this it is spotless when he gets home, but when he gets home he is the one that makes it into a pig stiy. it is like being married to a 3 year old.

SHOULD I BE WORRIED?????

I don't think it is wrong for your husband to like or watch porn, but personally I do think it is wrong for him to go onto date rooms of any kind it must be awful for yourself esteem if I was you id give him a good talking to and tell him how you feel otherwise it will eat away at you

[donf]

Synnen,

Just out of idle curiosity, are you playing with the spelling of your name as in (sinning?)

I guess I'm skewed by more than a little. I'm 61 this Thursday. I've been married for almost 42 years. Prior to marrying my lady at 18 we had no sexual hoopla's or Love In's.

We were very, very good friends a year after we met. We decided to get married and neither one of us had any idea of the maelstrom of events and how they were to change.

To be honest with you, any woman can fascinate me and drive me to the edge of the universe in despair for being spurned. However, I'll get to go home to be with the one person who has taken me from diapers to manhood to middle age. This lady has nursed me back from death when I suffered a Pulmonary Embolism. Literal Bonnie had to stick her nose almost to my skin to see if she could pick up the scent of gangrene.

When I got high enough in salary, I began taking Bon on business trips with me. I've been asked to re-locate 5 times over 38 years, by IBM and then Lexmark. My wife's career's just started and entered. One time she asked me not to take the assignment to Dallas. She wanted me to take a spot in Orlando.

She went to Dallas with me. She always supports me without pushing me. She always claimed that when the corporate life ended I would still have to come home to her.

All she ever asked me about career is to try to do better, take on challenges and do my best. Never forget that in our world family would come first, last and only.

My lady and I have one son - one grandaughter. We buried 3 son's back in the mid seventies. I was useless to help her. I had no concept of how much pain and misery I could cause her just because I was to dense to consider her.

Against this backdrop, you paint the picture of porno. I have to ask what is there for me to compare my wife to as opposed to porno queen.

A funny thing we developed over the years was meeting for lunch. When I left the field as a went into the IBM and Lexmark Labs we still would find time to meet for lunch.

Surprisingly with out rhyme or reason some ended in romantic romps. Again, I come back to porno, why do I need to wash my brain in sexual fantasy on the tube when a real warm feeling woman is at my shoulder. My imagination cannot hold a candle to Bon's. And none of it is smutty. I've come to believe that it is pure Love without attachment's

How can I then be with this lady and treat her as less than a lady!

As to the male stars, I can honestly say that I have no desire to get into a measurement contest, you know a tack versus a pile driver kind of mentality.

I apologize for the length of this missive, but I honestly believe that this lady has so blessed and enriched my life and the entire time I had no clue of the me she found under the rock tough snotty Bronx Boy.

[Synnen]

Donf---that's just beautiful. Seriously---I had tears in my eyes reading. You're one lucky couple, that I'm sure has had to work at being so lucky.

Congratulations :)

[donf]

George1950,

Here's the kind of porn I've been watching today. I was up at 05:30, I don't remember why. At 09:25, Bonnie opened the spare bedroom door to check on me before she left for work. I was told to, eat breakfast before I take my meds, nebulized, stay in bed and for God's sake call her if I needed help. No hero suffering today, please (Like's that's going to happen anyway. If I have to suffer, I'm going to do it with an audience) I woke up again around 11:00, fooled around with an FM radio that I'm trying to get a little more bandwidth on.

Then I did go out to the living room, sat in my, "Thoughtful spot" and stared at the Christmas tree that I've yet to take down.

So as aptly described by Bud Abbot and Lou Costello, slowly I turned and found some of the decoration boxes and started putting the decorations up. When the sweating started, I sat back down, sucked down another 32 ounces of Iced Tea and went back to work.

Early afternoon showed up so I put a Clive Cussler book on the cd player ans listed to the first three discs.

We had our conversations about porno and that was it. Bon and Jim came in the door, fixed dinner for me and the are watching TV and I'm in my Thoughtful spot again.

Look, I'm no prude, by any means. Yes, I've seen porn, particular when at sea as a just after diapers. Its just not an art form for me. I prefer to hold my wife and breathe in her various scents. I trip out over the real woman not the celluloid image.

[ayashe]

I do have a very close friend, who is a porn star. She is a great woman, married, and wonderful person in general. We will have to agree to disagree on this one! I have been married 20 years, and if hubby and I watch something on a porn, that one of us wants to try, we give it a go! Again, its adult entertainment, just as gambling, or being online. Any of the entertainments, as an addiction, is a problem.

[Saraah]

Porn isn't nearly as worse as a dating site. Because it means he's actually interacting with other women which is not a good thing. You say that you have talked to him and he doesn't talk he just "listens" You need to think Do you want to be in a relationship/Marriage with someone who's basically cheating on you. The time he is spending on the computer he should be spending with you. If you have tried talking to him then you should not come home one day. I don't know put him to the test Maybehe will realise that you are a great person and he really loves you. If he truly oves you he will choose you over the computer. Maybe instead of him having to go on the computer you could dress up into something sexy when he comes home. Make him see that he dusnt have to jack off to some chick on webcam when he has a beautifull woman he loves in the next room. I don't know if this helps at all. Good luck.

[rockerchick26]

I don't think that porn itself is your problem. Porn can be healthy as long as your partner doesn't become REPLACED by it. It seems that your husband has taken it to another level. Porn is a fantasy... women/men you will never meet. Being a member of a dating site makes it all a little too real. The next step would be a meeting with an actual person-cheating...

When you try to talk to him about it, how are you approaching him? Do you yell, accuse, or nag? I am a VERY argumentative person, and I have learned in the past that such an approach usually doesn't get you the reaction you really want. It can shut the person off and make them not want to listen. Come out and ask him if your weight is the issue. If it is, ask him if he would be willing to work on changing diet and exercise routines TOGETHER (you would get into better shape, be more healthy, and get closer to each other!)

Finally, it's obvious that you don't have very high self esteem. People can only love and respect YOU as much as you love and respect YOURSELF! You need to work on that before any of the problems in your marriage can truly be resolved.

I did like Peggyhill's suggestion to find spiritual (free) counselling--I am not religious myself and I don't know if you are, but it couldn't hurt.

[donf]

Okay,

I have no qualm about anyone watching porn. Or even enjoying porn.

I'm was trying to isolate my responses to my perspective(only) on the subject.

I've never met a porn star, male or female. Come to think of it, I've never met a promiscuous female or a sexually obsessed woman. But I have not as yet hung a sign out front advertising for them either.

I would truly like to have the strength of character to meet and talk and appreciate and decide on the person without feeling like I have to get her out of her clothes and let her have her way with me. Personally, I believe that any guy can be had by any woman with minimal effort.

In my situation, I would not like to fail that test. What's is so wrong with being happy where and with who you are with? What can another woman offer me that my own lady cannot? I guess I just will never find out and that's okay with me.

I'm going back under my rock, it's my safety zone!

[Synnen]

Nothing is wrong with it, donf.

Those of us actually advocating porn aren't advocating that someone become obsessed with it!

The question was asked "Is porn wrong?" In the OP's situation--yes, it is, because porn is replacing her.

I don't think, though, that porn in general is wrong. Or rather--I don't think it's any MORE wrong than sex toys, romance novels, erotica, or watching a movie about a love story. It's the way that it's used, and the way a particular person reacts to it that is wrong.

I guess to me, it's like alcohol. In moderate amounts, at the right time, alcohol is a nice thing. It's when someone puts alcohol before their family, their own safety, and the safety of others that alcohol use is wrong.

[donf]

Synnen,

To say nothing is wrong with watching porn is too much of a simplification for me. I just can't get comfortable with porn as being a entertainment experience.

Watching "Mary Poppings" almost 700 times was an entertaining experience as much as watching Gregory Peck as Atticus Fitch or Captain Newman MD.

My all time favorite, Angie inson was an entertainment experience for me and I think she always managed to have clothes on.

What I don't like to see is all the information on the "How we did it" dumped on the screen for us technocrats to learn. TV, Legit, Movies are mediums that abound with opportunities to astound us with illusion. Why go around and tell us the mechanics of the illusion.

Why remove the allure, the mystery and the feminine charms of a woman. I guess I a hopeless romantic. I'd rather have the real live person to hold, touch and feel, listen to her breathing Smell her perfume feel her skin, "Just be with" if you know what I mean. Not have to look at a screen and think, gee I wonder what that would be like?

Still on friendly terms?

[Synnen]

Of course we're still on friendly terms!

Difference of opinion doesn't make for war every time!

Agree to disagree?

[talaniman]

The problem isn't whether porn is good or bad, but a husbands behavior towards his female, which is making her feel terrible. Of course she takes it personally, but as with any addiction it is causing problems, and needs to be addressed. As with any addiction, help is needed to guide him through the process of recovery. At least they are talking which is great, but until he start losing the things he loves, he will never get real help. In other words, its time to stop accepting his behavior, and being guilty about it. That only makes it worse.

[308426]

Honestly, having the living room spotless is not what is keeping him from the living room. He is displacing his addiction on you, to make you feel like it is your fault for what he is doing. Sexual addiction is based more on his need for the "chase", not merely the pornography itself. As far as the pornography goes, it is only going to get worse. The reason porn addicts spend so much time online looking at porn is because they are more addicted to the anticipation of getting off, which means they will spend longer and longer online to find an image that best represents their fantasy for the evening.

Sometimes this can lead to an addiction too much worse. I suggest you separate from this man as soon as possible. By staying with him, you are demeaning yourself. It will only continue to hurt you more and more until you have no more hope. In addition, his activity online may or may not be legal or his tastes will reach an illegal status.

I read that Eharmony and other dating sites are viewed by men, as a means of getting sex. I went on a date through this site, and true enough, he was only looking for sex. Many times men will prey on vulrenable women for security, engage in demeaning behavior, and treat their partner badly to keep them perpetually insecure.

Your weight is not the issue. Your self-esteem is the issue. He knows he has power over you, especially since you are married. I have a lot of experience with this issue and was in therapy for two years. Please message me if you need a caring person to talk to. In the meantime, make an appointment with the doctor and go with your husband. There are anti-depressants that can be prescribed to hinder the libido and help curb the addiction.

I know you said money is tight, so he might be able to attend AA meetings and/or get a free referral from your doctor. As far as meds, some practices have free samples. I am not saying that anti-depressents are the best option, but I have heard the success rate is high. You are very strong to handle this so maturely. This has happened to me in the past, and it took me a very long time to view it rationally.

Love yourself first.
<3 laney.

[talaniman]

Make no mistake this is largely his problem, and I hope you help yourself also at this time, as others have said, with someone to talk to, to help you through this, as you need to love yourself, and seek to do things that make you a happy fulfilled person, outside of your husband. Waiting for him to come home and make you happy, can only magnify the situation, and make it worse when he does not.