[ScottGem]

That is so true. Many people do pirate music.

But I think there is a fundamental difference between copy and pasting someone’s work and downloading music.


If I was to copy and paste Scott’s quotes, that is copyright infringement. I am taking CREDIT for his work.

Pirating music. I am not taking credit for this music. I am not saying that I wrote/sang this song.

While I can see the distinction, the fact is both are still stealing. In the case of plagiarism you are stealing to increase your reputation or get out of doing the work on your own. In the case of piracy, you are stealing to save yourself from paying.

[CaptainForest]

My friend owns the DVD sets of Seinfeld.

I borrowed it from him and watched the dvd's on my dvd player.

I then returned the dvd's to him.

Did I steal?

[ScottGem]

If you watched them on his player in his home you would be OK. If he bought them to your home and watched with you, no problem. For you to borrow them to watch is probably within legality, but there is an ethical component here. Would you have bought them if a friend didn't have them? If so, then you would be depriving the copyright owners of revenue. While that's not stealing, I don't consider it entirely ethical.

But it is certainly clear that making a copy without purchasing the rights IS stealing.

[CaptainForest]

If you watched them on his player in his home you would be OK. If he bought them to your home and watched with you, no problem. For you to borrow them to watch is probably within legality, but there is an ethical component here. Would you have bought them if a friend didn't have them? If so, then you would be depriving the copyright owners of revenue. While that's not stealing, I don't consider it entirely ethical.

But it is certainly clear that making a copy without purchasing the rights IS stealing.

Referring to your third example, of me taking his DVD’s to my place to watch.

Would have I bought them? Maybe. Or I might have just rented it.

But that’s the same thing as downloading it. I am just borrowing a copy of a movie or some music from someone who LEGALLY owns it.

And before the age of the internet, copying still occurred. I remember when I was little, my parents would make copies of VCR tapes that their friends had bought for their kids.

Yes, there is an ethical issue as you say, but ethics is defined by society and the individual. More and more today, people are moving towards saying that copying is okay and ethical. Well, more the younger generation is saying that.


Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with it. That’s not to say I don’t see your point, I just mean I don’t agree with it.

I look at it as borrowing from a friend. I’ve downloaded movies from the net before. Movies that I might have rented otherwise. After I watch the movie, I delete it. I don’t have a burning desire to keep movies around (too many of the movies in my opinion are really bad).

[ScottGem]

While I agree that there is a loosening of ethics, especially worldwide, I don't areee that's it right. I think the ethics here is clear. If you want something that has a price on it you pay the price or you go without. To use that something without permission of the copyright holder (not the license holder), is not ethical and can be considered theft.

However you want to rationalize (and the lots of people do it argument is rationalization). It doesn't the facts. Its also a slippery slope. If you rationalize this behavior, then what next? What other unethical or illegal actions come next.

In my view, I think it should be nipped in the bud.

[orange]

Okay I'm kind of changing the subject a bit again, and going back to the earlier discussion of someone writing the same answer as others. Here's an excellent example I just saw today:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=20175

I know it's not a huge deal, but like why do people do this?? I don't get it. She mustn't have read the other answers.

[talaniman]

They probably haven't read any of the other post orange I usually skip past these folks and go duh! But it can be extremely irritating.You get all kinds sometime,wanting in on the action!

[ScottGem]

Yeah I saw that as well. First, it was an older message (10 days old), second, there was a clear cut answer that had already been posted. The only reason I added a post after Need's was that I think the true name of the # is very interesting.

The only thing I can say is that this was the person's first post so I suspect she was so happy to find a question she could answer she didn't think much about it.

[orange]

Thanks guys! Yeah it's not a big deal at all, and you're probably right, they're just not reading the other responses. It does look rather silly, come to think of it! :p

[ScottGem]

Thanks guys! Yeah it's not a big deal at all, and you're probably right, they're just not reading the other responses. It does look rather silly, come to think of it! :p

If this becomes a pattern for the person it might be necessary to politely say something. But a first time shot isn't worth bothering about.

[orange]

Actually I have seen a couple of people who do this as a matter of course... have several "copying" posts... there's another person doing it right now who has about 10 such posts. But they always seemed to be newbies and they don't seem to stick around very long.

[fredg]

HI,
Much discussion has been put into answers; i.e. when to answer, what to answer, read all the pages and pages of answers previously given, and this thread is a good example of it!
May become the longest thread of all.
Many of us see this as a Forum, where we can express ourselves, answer questions. Some give the same answers as already given, others add a little, others change the thread, and on and on.
It's all within Forum Rules. It is allowed to give a simple "6 word or so" answer, same as a previous answer.
I guess it all gives us something to do, whenever we see someone has added something else to it! Have a great week, and keep up the good work everyone.

[fredg]

Borrowing a movie from a friend happens all the time, all over the world. Nothing wrong with it!

[orange]

Good points as usual, Fred. I think it's good if people have something to add to a thread, I do that myself a lot, but I don't understand the single sentence (or even less than a sentence!) answers. This seems to happen a lot in the movies section, for example. Someone will ask for the title of a movie, a couple of people will respond with the correct title and a bit of discussion, and then the thread basically dies. A couple of weeks later it is revived when someone else responds with the correct title again. They don't add to the discussion at all, or offer any new information. It just seems weird to me. Personally I'd feel embarrassed to do that. :p But I understand what you're saying, people do think of this as a discussion forum, so perhaps they just think they are enhancing the discussion by giving the answer all over again.

[talaniman]

Ya got to enjoy the back and forth sometimes as in this thread almost like talking on the phone.

[ScottGem]

HI,
Much discussion has been put into answers; ie, when to answer, what to answer, read all the pages and pages of answers previously given, and this thread is a good example of it!
May become the longest thread of all.
Many of us see this as a Forum, where we can express ourselves, answer questions. Some give the same answers as already given, others add a little, others change the thread, and on and on.
It's all within Forum Rules. It is allowed to give a simple "6 word or so" answer, same as a previous answer.
I guess it all gives us something to do, whenever we see someone has added something else to it! Have a great week, and keep up the good work everyone.

The consensus I see from these discussions goes as follows:

1) If a question is technical in nature, once it has been answered adequately others should not repeat the answer. Instead they should add a comment supporting the answer.

2) In the above case, one should add answer only if it adds substantively to the previous answer(s).

3) In a non technical question, additional comments supporting previous answers are more welcome. Since such questions are more a item of opinion, multiplicity of opinion is welcome.

These are fairly simple guidelines. Clearly there may be differences of opinion as to what is a substantive addition and what isn't.

But these are the guidelines I use in deciding whether to add an answer to an existing thread. I've been using such guidelines for a long time. They seem logical and reasonable to me. I would suggest that these guidelines be incorporated into the guidelines for this site.

Not incorporating such guidelines will give license to those who are intent on building their point totals by answering any question they think they can. Quantity becomes more important than quality and I don't think that's the principle we want here. I would suspect that such guidelines would be opposed by those who want to post whenever and wherever they can. But, from my view, they represent a small minority.

Scott<>

[ScottGem]

They don't add to the discussion at all, or offer any new information. It just seems weird to me. Personally I'd feel embarrassed to do that. :p But I understand what you're saying, people do think of this as a discussion forum,

Orange,

Here's another example for consideration:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=21201

It seems weird to me to and, like you, I would be embarrassed to do it. From my experience, most people quickly pick up on people who do a lot of that. They see the pattern and start to wonder about the person who does it.

As for this being a discussion forum, that's only partially true. First and foremost is a Q&A forum. People ask questions and get answers. Once they get the right answer that should be the end of it. However, not every question has a right or wrong answers and some questions are a matter of discussion. So such questions need to be considered in any guidelines on the issue. I believe I have done so in the guidelines I listed.

Scott<>

[talaniman]

Scott you know I love debating you for some reason so here we go,First I really don't see how you can control someone's actions or agenda. Second the most attractive thing about this forum is the absence of restrictive rules and I'm sure others benefit from the freestyle manner you can answer posts to your heart content.As we know from this thread there are things that tic us all off sometimes but we are smart enough to either forgive a transgression or comment on it.This has seemed to work to some extent and most other problems have seemed to work themselves out I've tried to use other forums and call me spoiled but they don't do it for me as I think they are too structured for my taste's. I hate rules, the less the better for me.I think the members here can see and deal with the little things that pop-up. As for redundant or incorrect answer the way to handle it is simply to disagree. We all have that power and since your concern is the quality of answer a few red boxes should take care of those that are going for their own agenda and those who want to help.:cool:

[labman]

Scott, I would hate to see a rule like that in many forums. It would work fine in the computer area where there are several people that usually agree. Frankly, I don't know enough about computers to tell if they are right. At least in computers you shouldn't have people perpetuating the best of the 50's tech.

In a forum where one person consistently shows much more knowledge, those familiar with the forum are going to want to see an answer or comment from the one they know they can trust.

This site has a huge problem with people answering for the sake of answering because apparently they have no other life. I am not here to occupy my day. I am here to help people by sharing my extensive training and experience. It hasn't been as much fun lately. It has become very time consuming and stressful. The administration is well aware many are tired of it. Many disabling their reputation didn't bring any changes. I am sick of it and doubt I will hang on another week if I don't see some changes.

[ScottGem]

Scott you know I love debating you for some reason so here we go,First I really don't see how you can control someones actions or agenda. Second the most attractive thing about this forum is the absence of restrictive rules and I'm sure others benefit from the freestyle manner you can answer posts to your heart content.As we know from this thread there are things that tic us all off sometimes but we are smart enough to either forgive a transgression or comment on it.This has seemed to work to some extent and most other problems have seemed to work themselves out I've tried to use other forums and call me spoiled but they don't do it for me as I think they are too structured for my taste's. I hate rules, the less the better for me.I think the members here can see and deal with the little things that pop-up. As for redundant or incorrect answer the way to handle it is simply to disagree. we all have that power and since your concern is the quality of answer a few red boxes should take care of those that are going for their own agenda and those who want to help.:cool:

Controlling someone's agenda is clearly out of range, controlling (though I would prefer to use the word influencing) ones actions is a bit different.

I disagree with the absence of restrictive rules here. This is actually one of the more restrictive sites I have worked with. Notice, also that I listed the three points I did as GUIDELINES. I don't see them as nor should they be rules. But I do believe that listing them as guidelines may influence some of the people who feel, since there is no written prohibition to the contrary, that they can do whatever they want, no matter how much it annoys others. But more than that, I think its protecting them against themselves. I think many think like Chava and I do that echoing previous answers is embarrassing and does not reflect well on the poster. Peer pressure may work on some, but there appear to be others as shown in this thread) who are impervious to it.

But I'll also agree this is a fairly minor issue. The only one it harms are those who do the redundant posting by affecting their reputation. I'd still like to see my GUIDELINES codified, but there are other battles to be more diligiently fought.

Scott<>