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cozyk · Jan 13, 2009, 08:52 AM

I just saw a commercial about a Lifetime movie called "Prayers for Bobby".
It is about a deeply conservative woman and her gay son. She winds up being an advocate for gay and lesbian youths after her son is driven into a deep depression from his families disapproval and attempts to "cure" him of his sexual orientation. It ultimately drives him to suicide.

I for one am glad this movie is coming out and I hope it touches the heart of many parents that are un-accepting of their child's orientation. I would hate for it to come too late like it did in the case. I'd love ideas on other ways to warm the hearts of the conservatives that believe gayness is a sin and a choice. It is just so wrong.

George_1950 · Jan 13, 2009, 09:06 AM

Thanks for the heads-up on the movie. How do you come to the opinion that gayness is not a choice?

JSingle911 · Jan 13, 2009, 02:28 PM

If it's anything similar to my reason, it's that I never "chose" to be straight. I never had a defining moment when I could say, "At this time, I will go forth and love women".

Wondergirl · Jan 13, 2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by George_1950

Thanks for the heads-up on the movie. How do you come to the opinion that gayness is not a choice?

Is straightness your choice?

cozyk · Jan 13, 2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by George_1950

Thanks for the heads-up on the movie. How do you come to the opinion that gayness is not a choice?

For one thing, we naturally follow the path of least resistance. Choosing to take the road of ridicule, non-acceptance, persecution, discrimination, and condemnation would be kind of dumb, don't you think?

It makes much more sense to me that something goes awry in the gestation period. I think that would even make us want to be even more compassionate and tolerant. Maybe if I even met just one person that was gay, was not living a gay lifestyle, and was at true peace with himself while denying his true self, THEN I would be open to even giving it a bit of consideration.
But frankly, I don't know how you could ever be at peace if you were living a lie. That goes against everything that is real and valuable.

George_1950 · Jan 13, 2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Is straightness your choice?

I believe all behavior is a choice.

cozyk · Jan 13, 2009, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by George_1950

I believe all behavior is a choice.

Behavior? Yes Orientation? No
I'm a woman and I feel like a woman inside. Now, I can "behave" like a man all day long, but that never negates the fact that I am a woman both physically and mentally.

The behavior does not define me. It's what is inside me that counts. So sure, a gay person could behave like a straight person, but that is just a charade. If you can't be the person you were wired to be, THAT'S a sin and a crying shame.

George_1950 · Jan 13, 2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by cozyk

For one thing, we naturally follow the path of least resistance. Choosing to take the road of ridicule, non-acceptance, persecution, discrimination, and condemnation would be kinda dumb, don't you think?

It makes much more sense to me that something goes awry in the gestation period. I think that would even make us want to be even more compassionate and tolerant...
But frankly, I don't know how you could ever be at peace if you were living a lie. That goes against everything that is real and valuable.

I agree and appreciate a lot of what you write. But isn't it convenient to surmise that 'something goes awry in the gestation period' ? A lot of societies' mores and inhibitions have been striken over the last 50 years, and perhaps longer than that. Whether it is dying one's hair red or green, body piercing, or tatoos; the invention and convenience of female contraception and divorce on demand have not come into society without a price. I don't minimize or ignore the pain and lonliness that gays or straights must feel at times in their lives. Rather than believe that something has gone awry, I would rather believe that, just as one is born with a right and left hand, people are born either female or male.

Wondergirl · Jan 13, 2009, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by George_1950

Rather than believe that something has gone awry, I would rather believe that, just as one is born with a right and left hand, people are born either female or male.

Then perhaps it is Mother Nature's "fault" after all, to be born gay or straight.

We all start as female at conception, but something happens to turn some of those female fetuses into males. Perhaps that is true of sexual orientation, that we all begin heterosexual, but something happens in the womb to turn some of those heterosexual fetuses into homosexual ones.

And the hand we favor as a 10-week-old fetus is the hand we favor for the rest of our life. But the fetus doesn't start as either right- or left-handed.

cozyk · Jan 13, 2009, 03:39 PM

, I would rather believe that, just as one is born with a right and left hand, people are born either female or male.[/QUOTE]

Not everything is black or white. Male or female, period. Be open minded.
I have 3 words for you about that. Gender Identity Disorder

Trans gender is when the nervous system starts out as female. (They all do) Then the brain receives less testosterone that is needed or the receptors of the nervous system doesn't fully "recept" the hormones for some reason, then you can have a male body with a female inside. I may not have explained it just right but this is a true scientifically proven condition.
And that is just one of the conditions that can go wrong in utero. So why can't gayness also be something that happens in utero?

cozyk · Jan 13, 2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Then perhaps it is Mother Nature's "fault" after all, to be born gay or straight.

We all start out as female at conception, but something happens to turn some of those female fetuses into males. Perhaps that is true of sexual orientation, that we all begin heterosexual, but something happens in the womb to turn some of those heterosexual fetuses into homosexual ones.

And the hand we favor as a 10-week-old fetus is the hand we favor for the rest of our life. But the fetus doesn't start out as either right- or left-handed.

Oops. I just posted my response. After I hit "submit answer" I was returned to the latest post. It happened to be yours and we were basically making the same argument at the same time. Weird.:eek:

NeedKarma · Jan 13, 2009, 04:03 PM

Now remember - fundamentalist preacher Ted Haggard was cured of his gay in just 3 weeks of counseling: Haggard says he is "completely heterosexual" - The Denver Post

Haggard, 50, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and was fired from the church he built from nothing into a 14,000-member congregation after a former male prostitute in Denver alleged a three-year cash-for-sex relationship.. . three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
"He is completely heterosexual," Ralph said. "That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing."

:rolleyes:

Wondergirl · Jan 13, 2009, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Now remember - fundamentalist preacher Ted Haggard was cured of his gay in just 3 weeks of counseling: Haggard says he is "completely heterosexual" - The Denver Post

:rolleyes:

How does Ralph know Haggard is now "completely heterosexual." Is there a test?

The article goes on to say, "Why Haggard chose to act out in that manner is something Haggard and his advisers are trying to discern, Ralph said."

"Act out" implies that Haggard played around at being homosexual, tried it out, but is really heterosexual to the core.

0rphan · Jan 21, 2009, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by cozyk

I just saw a commercial about a Lifetime movie called "Prayers for Bobby".
It is about a deeply conservative woman and her gay son. She winds up being an advocate for gay and lesbian youths after her son is driven into a deep depression from his families disapproval and attempts to "cure" him of his sexual orientation. It ultimately drives him to suicide.

I for one am glad this movie is coming out and I hope it touches the heart of many parents that are un-accepting of their child's orientation. I would hate for it to come too late like it did in the case. I'd love ideas on other ways to warm the hearts of the conservatives that believe gayness is a sin and a choice. It is just so wrong.

I find this deeply saddening, I would love my children, no matter what they were... they are not gay or lesbian... it wouldn't matter if they were, at the end of the day we are all human beings... all originals... none of us better than each other, but all of us equal to one another.

I have worked with all gendas and contrary to popular belief, they are all normal human beings. I hope some day people climb from their high horse and stop judging... they have no right... opinion... yes, as we all do but sometimes it's best kept to yourself...

Blessings

Ren6 · Feb 13, 2009, 01:09 PM

It turns out that Ted's Haggard's infidelities with the male prostitute were not the only ones he's committed. He also got together with a parishioner who was struggling with gay feelings- he's now admitted that he has "struggled" with his gayness his whole life. He will never be cured of his gayness. Some folks may choose celibacy, but the feelings will never be completely gone.

verbattered52 · Feb 17, 2009, 08:21 PM

I agree with cozyk! There are a lot of people who need educated on the fact that being gay is not a choice, it is genetic.