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    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Aug 2, 2013, 02:49 AM
    I love Japan, but what if everybody around me hates it?
    I am a Chinese, I love many countries, I think I have the right to love whatever country I like.

    However, Chinese censorship is so harsh that we are not only blocked from fb,twitter and YouTube but we are also instilled the revenge on Japan from elementary school. Everything that school taught us is how bad japenese are and how they killed chinese in history.. So almost everybody in china has the idea that japenese are terrible, and that we should take revenge on them.(there are even some anti-japan activities occurred, where so-called 'patriotic' chinese dameged japanese corporations in china).

    Today, I heard 5 guys (my school mates) talking about japan and they were saying how bad japanese are and they said that we should be a patriot to take revenge on japan.. then I just can't help saying I love japan.. of course the five guys are all mad at me, thinking I am not patriotic and they insulted me... I just too weak to argue(they are 5 and I am only 1).. I just thought Chinese government is worse than Japan is. And how stupid the 5 guys are to buy the propaganda the chinese government made(even though it's true for sure)..

    In a sentence... I don't want to be hated(because I am just through a trauma where I used to think everybody hates me)... so what is the smart move when this happens? Just ignore them ? Or express my ideas even though they stupid guys would probably hate me.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:03 AM
    Mao killed far more Chinese than the Japanese ever did... almost 80 million in fact.

    http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

    Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
    Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
    Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 8,000,000
    Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 7,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
    Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
    Ismail Enver (Ottoman Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
    Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
    Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
    Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
    Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
    Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
    Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
    Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
    Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
    Suharto/Soeharto (Indonesian communists 1965-66) 500,000
    Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
    Jonas Savimbi - but disputed by recent studies (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
    Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
    Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
    Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71) 300,000 (Bangladesh)
    Ante Pavelic (Croatia, 1941-45) 359,000 (30,000 Jews, 29,000 Gipsies, 300,000 Serbs)
    Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
    Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
    Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
    Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
    Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98) 200,000
    Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56) 200,000
    Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
    Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99) 100,000
    Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
    Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
    Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
    Efrain Rios Montt - but disputed by recent studies (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
    Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
    Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61) 50,000
    Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012-13) 50,000
    Francisco Macias Nguema (Equatorial Guinea, 1969-79) 50,000
    Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
    Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
    Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
    Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
    Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
    Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
    Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932) 30,000
    Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
    Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
    Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) 20,000
    Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83) 13,000
    Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957) 10,000 (war in Algeria)
    Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion) 10,000
    Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
    Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001) 3,500
    Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
    current pert
     
    #3

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:08 AM
    It isn't easy to stand up for what you believe is right. When you do so about a controversial subject, do it with facts and reasoning, rather than just 'I love Japan.' The war is over, all countries have invaded or been invaded and adjust with the times, the Japanese culture is steeped in many of the same traditions as the Chinese, and their work ethic is to be admired. They produce a lot for such a tiny country. They believe in education and they honor their parents and ancestors. And so on!
    And finally, you can say that it's easy to bash another culture, but it takes wisdom to appreciate and respect it.
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #4

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:09 AM
    Yes, of course he did. And he concered everything and everybody in china still honors him.. but that is not the point.. my question is how to handle this situation when the next time I heard someone talking about japan in front of me?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #5

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:11 AM
    I'd tell them its been over 70 years... time to get over it... 99.9% of the people that were involved are dead now... the people alive today had no part at all in it.

    You can see the results of indocrination and propaganda even more than most can. You live with it more.

    Sone people will believe what they want... even after being shown the facts... but even more you also have to consider the dangers in even trying in certain areas... such as where you are now... disadents or people that are seen as one can pay a high price.
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #6

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    It isn't easy to stand up for what you believe is right. When you do so about a controversial subject, do it with facts and reasoning, rather than just 'I love Japan.' The war is over, all countries have invaded or been invaded and adjust with the times, the Japanese culture is steeped in many of the same traditions as the Chinese, and their work ethic is to be admired. They produce a lot for such a tiny country. They believe in education and they honor their parents and ancestors. And so on!
    And finally, you can say that it's easy to bash another culture, but it takes wisdom to appreciate and respect it.
    It's really smart of you. Why can't I get so articulate... wow.. amazing.. thank you!
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    I'd tell them its been over 70 years....time to get over it....99.9% of the people that were involved are dead now....the people alive today had no part at all in it.

    You can see the results of indocrination and propaganda even more than most can. You live with it more.

    Sone people will believe what they want....even after being shown the facts....but even more you also have to consider the dangers in even trying in certain areas.....such as where you are now....disadents or people that are seen as one can pay a high price.
    Well to be honest , they could prabably say something like "How could you forget the disgrace on your country?? if so , the japanese could bully you at any time!! they must be intriguing something.. who knows? maybe the forth world war against china!! Nothing is over , we should never forget . and we must take revenge on them!"

    -.- well.. it really sounds stupid..
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #8

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:48 AM
    Let them have their beliefs and you have yours. It's like religion - you're not going to change someone's view with reasoning.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #9

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by CharmYou View Post
    well to be honest , they could prabably say something like "How could you forget the disgrace on your country?? if so , the japanese could bully you at any time!! they must be intriguing something.. who knows? maybe the forth world war against china!! Nothing is over , we should never forget . and we must take revenge on them!"

    -.- well..it really sounds stupid ..
    Yes it does... and there are and will always be people that can't or won't let the past remain the past.

    Nothing wrong with rememebring the past... but you can't move forward to the future if you continue to live in the past.

    You will drive yourself crazy trying to convince people that are like that. You say your part... but need to be able to recognise they might not want to see things as they are now... And what happens is your ability to enjoy what you do have is reduced. Some people actually enjoy being miserable fixated on copmplaining about something that happened a long time ago... before they were born ( and nobody can change the past). And its not unique to China. They are everywhere.


    As an example... My grandfather left Ireland back when they were still REALLY being oppressed by the English... and it wasn't but a twenty years before Japan did what it did... does it make sense that I should be upset with the English over what happened way back then... no it doesn't. And no I'm not.

    The people who WERE alive and victims of it themselves... they do have a reason to cling to it, even if its not healthy for them to do it..

    I'm guessing that your grandparents or maybe even great or great-great grandparents were alive then... not you or even your parents. Or theirs.
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Aug 2, 2013, 06:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Yes it does....and there are and will always be people that can't or won't let the past remain the past.

    Nothing wrong with rememebring the past...but you can't move forward to the future if you continue to live in the past.

    You will drive yourself crazy trying to convince people that are like that. You say your part...but need to be able to recognise they might not want to see things as they are now....And what happens is your ability to enjoy what you do have is reduced. Some people actually enjoy being miserable fixated on copmplaining about something that happened a long time ago....before they were born ( and nobody can change the past). And its not unique to China. They are everywhere.


    As an example.....My grandfather left Ireland back when they were still REALLY being oppressed by the English...and it wasn't but a twenty years before Japan did what it did.....does it make sense that I should be upset with the English over what happened way back then.....no it doesn't. And no I'm not.

    The people who WERE alive and victims of it themselves...they do have a reason to cling to it, even if its not healthy for them to do it..

    I'm guessing that your grandparents or maybe even great or great-great grandparents were alive then...not you or even your parents. Or theirs.

    Yep.. sounds like what buddha usually says.. ^_^ are u a buddha? Thanks for your answers , it's helpful.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #11

    Aug 2, 2013, 06:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by CharmYou View Post
    Yep..sounds like what buddha usually says..^_^ are u a buddha? Thanks for your answers , it's helpful.
    Nope.. I'm not Buhdist... I'm a Protestant actually... but I'm old enough to understand you can live a much happier life if you focus on the things you can change... and not worry as much about those that you can't.

    Understand when I say worry about isn't the same as talk about... I can talk and even argue about some topics... but I can then walk away from them and not have them on my mind... somethig you worry about too much you will have on your mind even when you go to sleep.

    When you reach a certain age it dawns upon you that life isn't nearly as long as it seems when you are very young... and you don't want to waste it on things that make you upset.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #12

    Aug 2, 2013, 08:16 AM
    Culture runs deep. Go to Texas and tell them to forget the Alamo, and see how hated you can get real fast. And mention the word Nazi, in the US today and you will not be that popular.

    And of course, in the US, use the word "communist" and see how fast you can lose friends.

    There is hatred for many reasons. And yes China does block many web sites, although there are province differences on some sites that are blocked. But then of course there are 100's of thousands Chinese who merely bypass those blocks, many Chinese business, people all use those sites daily. The block that China does is easily gotten around.

    But the invasion by the Japanese was different from the civil war in China, it was an invasion by a outside military force. The abuse by them on the Chinese people was very bad. Part of the Asian culture is to seek revenge and not to forget. I know from the Japanese side, they expect revenge after two or three generations even. My father would have never forgiven or accepted any japanese, he was in the war and fought them in the Pacific.

    Currently there is a new dispute over the Islands and the tension between Japan and China is heating up.

    Often it is the need for a political enemy that is used to bind a nation together.

    But again, you are young and have a small circle of friends. I know a Japanese man who lives and works in Zhengzhou, he teaches Japanese at the university and has a waiting list of people who want to take his class.

    I also know a Chinese man, who lives in Japan and teaches Chinese language there.

    But again, I have lost many friends who can not believe I moved and will live in China, because of how "evil" the chinese are. It is just how people are taught from their nations political view points
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,846, Reputation: 5428
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    #13

    Aug 2, 2013, 08:23 AM
    I have a Korean friend who says his country historically has been stomped across and marched over as the Japanese and Chinese attacked each other. He said their villages were robbed for food and weapons, their women and daughters were raped, and their people in general were murdered.

    It all depends on your point of view.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #14

    Aug 2, 2013, 08:40 AM
    History is taught very different in countries. Here in China, the history of the cold war is much different than that of the US. The civil war for freedom with Chairman Mao is not taugh the same.

    With that said, Chinese students know more about the founding of the US, the early US presidents, President Clinton and Hilary, and President Obama than most US students do.
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Aug 2, 2013, 08:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    History is taught very different in countries. Here in China, the history of the cold war is much different than that of the US. The civil war for freedom with Chairman Mao is not taugh the same.

    With that said, Chinese students know more about the founding of the US, the early US presidents, President Clinton and Hilary, and President Obama than most US students do.

    Yep , you are right. . By the way . Are you a Japanese moving from japan to china ? After reading your post I still have no idea where you are from.. but I am glad to hear from you.. your post is really amazing.. sorry about my crappy english though..
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #16

    Aug 2, 2013, 08:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by CharmYou View Post
    Yep , you are right. . btw . r u a Japanese moving from japan to china ? after reading your post i still have no idea where u r from..but i am glad to hear from you.. your post is really amazing ..sorry about my crappy english though..
    I am an American, I live in Zhengzhou China,

    I just know many many people. I know several Chinese who live in Japan and some Japanese that live in China. You will find more hatred for Japanese in the areas where the invasion took place and where abuses were higher.

    I am a teacher, here, but also study culture.
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Aug 2, 2013, 05:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    I am an American, I live in Zhengzhou China,

    I just know many many people. I know several Chinese who live in Japan and some Japanese that live in China. You will find more hatred for Japanese in the areas where the invasion took place and where abuses were higher.

    I am a teacher, here, but also study culture.
    Really, wow. That's unbelievable . You know . I used to believe that US is the best country in the world ( but now I know that there is no 'best'... ) it must be really tough for you to adapt yourself to china.


    Well. China is rich in history ( mor than 5000 years)... so I think this is the reason you are interested in chinese culture.. yes.. mhmm.. I am very proud of the culture of china.. . but still a foreigner like you even knows more than native chinese.. wow that's really amazing.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #18

    Aug 2, 2013, 06:00 PM
    I have studied, martial arts, including Kung Fu, for over 45 years, along with a lot of the Buddhist faith ( no I am not buddhist) so I often laugh, when I know a lot about the reasons behind some of the Chinese traditions, I spend as much time study things about China, as I do teaching.

    I teach mostely American culture, and how life is, in the US.

    There is a great movie, just came out, "The American Dream in China" it is a must see
    CharmYou's Avatar
    CharmYou Posts: 32, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Aug 2, 2013, 10:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
    I have studied, martial arts, including Kung Fu, for over 45 years, along with a lot of the Buddhist faith ( no I am not buddhist) so I often laugh, when I know a lot about the reasons behind some of the Chinese traditions, I spend as much time study things about China, as I do teaching.

    I teach mostely American culture, and how life is, in the US.

    there is a great movie, just came out, "The American Dream in China" it is a must see
    well I watched it... it's a chinese movie? I thought it an english movie at the beginning... so you are able to understand chinese? ( mhm.. a movie like this is hard for a non-chinese person to understand.. ) if so, that would be unbelievably amazing... you know... the way 大山(da shan, a famous american in china) pronounces chinese still sounds foreign.. In this movie, there are two guys who seem really good at english(at least from my perspective, they are totally fluent.).. but what do you think about their english ? Well.. I mean ,even though I have tried hard to reduce my chinese accent , when I talk to a native english speaker , he still says I sound assian.. (I even don't know how they identify the accent.. I thought the english I speak is exactly like american.. ) well. Is there a way to get rid of my chinese accent? And.. what do you think the accent of the two guys in that movie.. I thought they are totally fluent and perfect.. do you think they still have chinese accent?

    Well.. really it's not uncommon that chinese want to go usa.. but it's really uncommon that an american move to china.. ^_^ so I am so glad to hear from you(中国人民需要你)... I am an 18 boy in Hunan province.. and about to step into a university in NanChang... Thanx for your post! ^_^
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #20

    Aug 3, 2013, 12:25 AM
    No, one "american" accent, there is a southern, mountain, Northeast, Texas, Western and North Western, all of them have different accents that can be easily told. Of course same in China, it is easy to tell the difference in Northern, Southern and Western Provence dialect

    Chinese can more easily adapt the British accent easier, but everyone will have a accent of some sort ( well amost, my wife does not).

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