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    JohnsPop's Avatar
    JohnsPop Posts: 99, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Jan 20, 2018, 02:53 PM
    Looks like a blown resistor in paper shredder
    My paper shredder quit working. It has that "burnt electronics" smell. I opened it up and it appears the fuse is good. I tested across it with a multimeter. The motor is still good. I put voltage to it with a model train transformer and it turned OK. Transformer only puts out 17VDC and the motor is 120VDC, so it turned slow, but doesn't appear to be burned up. Took me a while to get around to it, but I finally saw the burn marks on the circuit board... looks like a resistor blew out. I can probably find the resistor and I can desolder the old one and solder the new one in, but I don't know what the value is. I'm color blind, so I can't really read the colors on resistors anyway, but is there any way I can find the value I need, or get close enough where the shredder will work? Seems like a pretty easy fix if I can get that resistor. Thanks.

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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #2

    Jan 20, 2018, 03:56 PM
    You can give us the make and model, or Google it yourself, and maybe find the resistor ID, and specifications, and/or control board.
    JohnsPop's Avatar
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    #3

    Jan 22, 2018, 06:22 AM
    Sure, it's a Staples Mail Mate SPL-1209M3. I googled it and found some videos working on it, but nothing specific like schematics or diagrams. Shredderparts.com said they didn't carry parts for that one and to buy a new shredder. :) I'm hoping I can just find a 5 cent resistor to go in it. :)

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    #4

    Jan 22, 2018, 06:28 AM
    And I'm just guessing that's a resistor, I don't know that much about electronics. I kind of know what different things do and I can replace parts on a board if I can ID them. I know how to not get zapped... well, most of the time. :)
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #5

    Jan 22, 2018, 10:28 AM
    Any electronics shops near you, or fix it shops? Getting the old, or compatible parts is the problem, and your inability to see what the color values are sure doesn't help I can't see it either. Anybody else will make you buy in bulk and some are still cheaper than a new product... if you are correct in the part you think is bad.

    What I did though, was Google "Electronic parts in <Zip code>" and got a few places I could call and get some assistance. Not only did they offer testing and diagnosis, but a variety of kits for cheap. Resale guys the salvation Army and pawn shops use to be good places to get old parts back in my putzing days, but the wife made me get rid of all my old stuff in the garage that I used to scavenge parts from.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help, I searched everywhere I could for helpful info, but even the manuals for staples shredders yielded nothing useful, not surprising when THEY have newer, "better" products to sell, and YOU have a fixable cheaper, older, functional relic.

    Please keep us updated and feel free to ask questions that you have.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #6

    Jan 23, 2018, 07:29 AM
    Buy an new shredder. I guarantee you something else failed that caused that resister to pass enough current to release its magic smoke. Resisters are passive components.....
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #7

    Jan 23, 2018, 08:02 AM
    Blows my mind that the fuse didn't go first, but components do fail for whatever reason. A great point about what the ROOT cause of that failure was. Finding it can be expensive.

    Scavenging or searching for parts, and LEARNING where they are is part of the thrill of fixing stuff. It starts with thrown away radios, and TV's, appliances, and evolved to cars, and junk yards. Also can be an expensive thrill, just in tools!

    You can conquer the world with a soldering gun, or a welding rod! 8D
    JohnsPop's Avatar
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    #8

    Jan 23, 2018, 08:18 AM
    No money for a new shredder Smoothy. :( Guess I can just fire up the ol' burn can. I've seen packs of resistors on Amazon of 500-1000 resistors of various values for $5-$10. Wouldn't surprise me what made the resistor blow... I've had the drawer out of it for years with a cedar shim stuck in the safety switch that turns the unit off if the drawers out. I made a plywood top for an old sewing machine cabinet and I keep a 13 gallon trash can underneath to catch the fallout. Until I started researching this, I never even knew shredders had a "run time" or whatever they call it before you have to let them cool off. Makes sense. :) I've had this thing probably 10 years and I'll stand there 5-10 minutes running stuff through it with no break. Only saving grace is I usually try to rip apart stapled documents and only run 4 or 5 sheets through there at a time instead of the 8 or 10 it's rated for. I've only had it shut down due to thermal overload where I had to let it cool off a couple times. That's why I figured I burned the motor up, but glad that was OK.

    If push comes to shove, I guess I can look around for surplus sites and try to find a 120VDC power supply for cheap and just rig everything up in a home-built case of some sort. I guess it's also not just a case of no money, it's just kind of a "project" because I like fixing stuff and making something out of nothing whenever I can. I appreciate everyone's help and advice and I'll just see what I can come up with. I'll post back any results and some pics if I come up with some type of "frankencase". :)

    And yes, I can probably get a comparable shredder from Amazon shipped free for $30-$40, but that's just not where I am right now. ;)
    JohnsPop's Avatar
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    #9

    Jan 23, 2018, 08:30 AM
    That's kind of what I do too, Talaniman. Whenever I toss an electronic device, if I have time, I like to take it apart and desolder switches, led's, plugs, etc for anything I think I can use. I keep them in coffee cans at the house. I've never saved resistors or caps, but maybe I need to start. :) I did replace the switch in this thing, because I've had some trouble with it turning on and I'd have to push around on it in different directions to get it to come on and off. The switch wasn't the problem though, apparently. I also hard-wired the drawer safety switch taking it out thinking maybe that was the culprit, but that wasn't it. By-passed the heat sensor in the motor, but that didn't do it either. I put everything back before testing the motor with the train transformer, so I'm guessing everything was OK since the motor turned like it was supposed to.

    I understand that electronics can be very sensitive, but how close in range does a single resistor have to be to function? Can you not get "in the ball-park" just judging by its size? Or is it more like a mathematical formula where the equation doesn't work without exact values? Could I solder in a resistor that was just physically close in size to see if the unit would work at all?

    And last comment for now... LOL That's part of my frustration... all the bells and whistles. It's probably some stupid led or safety something or other that's blown keeping it from working. If I had a 120VDC power supply wired to a toggle switch wired to the motor, I'd just flip the thing on and off being careful not to run it too long unlike what I've done in the past. It seems like a good, heavy motor and some good ol' chompin' teeth and I don't need the bells and whistles of safety switches, fwd/rev, etc, etc. I just need the thing to come on and eat paper. :) I could wire up a DPDT center off switch for fwd/rev in case it *did* get jammed.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #10

    Jan 23, 2018, 09:13 AM
    Just because YOU can't read the resistor color code doesn't mean someone else can't! Better to use like values than create an unsafe condition by under, or over.

    By passing the control board eliminates the bells and whistles AND safeties, but you can still shred paper. You just have to closely monitor the motor, and avoid anything that puts undue load on it like paper jams, or long usage. If I relocate that YouTube video of the guy who did just that I will post it. Yes he included a simple schematic to follow too!

    You should see my coffee can collection, but don't tell the wife! I'm supposed to be retired from junk!
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #11

    Jan 23, 2018, 10:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Blows my mind that the fuse didn't go first, but components do fail for whatever reason. A great point about what the ROOT cause of that failure was. Finding it can be expensive.

    Scavenging or searching for parts, and LEARNING where they are is part of the thrill of fixing stuff. It starts with thrown away radios, and TV's, appliances, and evolved to cars, and junk yards. Also can be an expensive thrill, just in tools!

    You can conquer the world with a soldering gun, or a welding rod! 8D
    Looks to me that is only a 1/4 watt carbon resistor, not even a power resistor, so it really doesn't take much to release the magic smoke (electronics humor). Without full schematics (which would be a miracle in itself), and that assumes they don't have uniquely identified components (very common on the integrated circuits and transistors on low cost high volume stuff), you might never know what the actual components are even if you have an identical working one right next to it to compare to. I've got all the test equipment at home and the know how to do it myself, but even I gave up on fixing even broken TV's a long, long time ago... after going to the trouble of fixing one problem, only to have it come back weeks or months later, or a whole new problem fail. These cheap high volume items are almost impossible... poorly designed, and built to fail is how I like to describe the issue. Particularly consumer grade Shredders...many of the under $100 ones have plastic bearings, that alone says it all...and the commercial grade ones are some serious money (over $400 and up, the really good ones are thousands). But I can guarantee you...the problem wasn't the resistor, that was just the first part to burn out. So that IS bad now..but so is something else that is the real problem.

    When you see those crappy Bakelite circuit boards like this...that's as cheap and low quality as they come. brittle when new, and it only gets worse as they get old Better quality stuff are on fiberglass base circuit boards.

    Guarantee you where these are made...if they get tested at all (and it is unlikely) if it doesn't work they toss it in the trash with no attempt to make it work. cost them only pennies to make each of those boards in volume.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #12

    Jan 23, 2018, 06:11 PM
    I can usually read resistors, But can't read ALL Black. Don't know anyone who can, I f you know someone else has one, maybe open it up. Going to see if I can Google the board and see an image and read the resistor.
    If Money is real bad, A Match was the first shredder? Good Luck
    You could try their phone
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    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #13

    Jan 23, 2018, 06:25 PM
    https://www.google.com/search?q=mail...=1516756706098

    Looks like Brn/Bk/Brn which is 100 ohms with a gold band(5%). I wouldn't trust my eyes, look at the images, one may confirm.

    Try this one, top row:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=mail...h=365&dpr=1.75
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #14

    Jan 23, 2018, 06:26 PM
    I'm looking at that again.. I'm 99% sure its NOT a resister that smoked. Metal caps on the end, and the size are different. I see a few transistors, diodes a few types of Capacitors, a couple IC's that big white block is a Power resister, What I don't see are any inductors ( I recognize)... and I bet that was one, more specifically a Choke.
    JohnsPop's Avatar
    JohnsPop Posts: 99, Reputation: 2
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    #15

    Jan 24, 2018, 07:50 AM
    I looked at that Instructable, but that was before I saw the smoked component and forgot he showed a picture of that board. That looks almost identical to my board. On the outside that one looks exactly like mine, of course I realize the circuit boards could be entirely different on the same model. I found one of the comments left interesting.... here's what that guy had to say about his:

    Mailmate power light would light but shredder would not turn. Opening instructions were helpful but the screw driver should be long and with a SMALL Phillips head. Had difficulty with this because of the low grade plastic that the screws thread into. Did not need to take stainless front panel off. Once inside found fuse was OK (not blown). However bridge rectifier was shorted out, (replaced with 6A 800V bridge). Stock bridge is 4A 600V bridge but clearly overheated over time, thus the larger bridge package. 100 ohm resistor was nearly fired (cracked and charred) but was still operating (replaced anyway with 100 ohm 2W resistor). 0.60 ohm 5W resistor was open. Replaced with 0.56 ohm 5W. 0.60 ohm will be hard to find since it is not an EIA standard size. Would expect that either the 0.56 or 0.68 would work. It is used by the uC as a current sensor. All the electrolytic capacitors (C2, C3, C4, C9 and C10) were well out of ESR spec but not bulging or oozing. Replaced with high quality low ESR 105C caps. Works fine now. All the parts other than uC are fairly simplistic. In searching the web it seems like there are a number of different failures with this unit but most seem fairly easy to remedy once you get inside and can use a DMM for basic component trouble shooting.
    The over temp light did not come on even though the PCB had clear indications of overheating with charring and light burn markings on the PCB next to the 100 ohm resistor. Once the 0.60 5W resistor opens it places tremendous over current through the 100 ohm resistor causing the burn markings. I think the overheating sensor is in the motor and not on the physical circuit board itself. If the shredding tines are jammed it will overheat the motor. The uC senses this from the motor temp sensor and then lights the over temp led.
    There are breakers at Newark for $1.50 each or Element 14 in the UK but do not know the cost there.
    Good luck to anyone repairing. My wife loves this shredder when it works.

    If the circuit board shown in the instructable is the same as mine, here's a good picture of it......
    Attached Images
     
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    #16

    Jan 24, 2018, 07:59 AM
    Looks like brown or green, brown or green, red or orange and gold... yeah, I'm pretty sure about that gold one. Unless it's silver. :D
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #17

    Jan 24, 2018, 09:30 AM
    C1 is a Tantalum capacitor below it in photo. Big redish LUmp. CH-7 indicates a choke, not a resister. To the left of that is clearly a Diode. F1 is also clearly a fuse The white cube is a 5 watt power resister.
    JohnsPop's Avatar
    JohnsPop Posts: 99, Reputation: 2
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    #18

    Jan 24, 2018, 11:59 PM
    Ok, so it's a choke, tell me what to order. :) Hey, if it's a giraffe, give me a part number and I'll solder it in there.
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    JohnsPop Posts: 99, Reputation: 2
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    #19

    Jan 25, 2018, 12:13 AM
    https://www.amazon.com/BOURNS-JW-MIL...tronics+chokes

    https://www.amazon.com/BOURNS-JW-MIL...tronics+chokes

    Closer and closer... we're sneakin up on it. :) I completely understand what you're saying about something else failing as soon as I fix this, but I've had this thing probably going on 10 years. Maybe it was just time for that part to blow... I don't know, but I'm going to give it a shot. I'm learning a lot anyway. :)

    Here we go.... maybe this will close the deal.... http://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-D...rsn=e1500182_3 That shows the colors for the values. 15000 +- 5%?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #20

    Jan 25, 2018, 03:55 AM
    https://www.findchips.com/detail/78FR22K-RC

    Shop around, eBay and Amazon aren't the only game in town. Nor the most economical. Electronic parts is a huge category, and if a dealer is near you, you get to browse. 8D

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