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    need Boiler 101's Avatar
    need Boiler 101 Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Feb 25, 2007, 09:13 AM
    Oil Burner still dripping.Oil Co. tricks.fear for 3 dogs lives
    That 1 you see as a response to my boiler question was to redirect my boiler question to heating and cooling. Please refer to boiler burner dripping below. Still need an answer as am not willing to have the tricky oil companies service my problem after causing it. They want to see more dollars added to my account as I have saved money cutting the boiler off manually in the warmer months. The dogs and I have also gotten through this winter with the thermostat set at 55 degrees. Dogs are lucky they don't take frequent showers. Please I need help.
    hvac1000's Avatar
    hvac1000 Posts: 14,540, Reputation: 435
    Heating & Air Conditioning Expert

    Feb 26, 2007, 12:35 PM
    If your oil burner is dripping after shut down you have a bad check valve in the oil pump. Replace the pump would be my first choice.
    taternutt's Avatar
    taternutt Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Mar 4, 2007, 05:46 AM
    May also have a bad combution head on burner.
    hvac1000's Avatar
    hvac1000 Posts: 14,540, Reputation: 435
    Heating & Air Conditioning Expert

    Mar 4, 2007, 08:00 AM
    (Still need an answer as am not willing to have the tricky oil companies service my problem after causing it.)

    Why would you ask us tricky heating guys since you do not trust the tricky oil guys. Us tricky heating guys charge more that the tricky oil guys.

    Your problem is such that you need a professional on site at you house to look at your boiler. Lets face it if you knew anything about a oil burner you would not be asking us. We gave you some tips on where to start looking so tear it out and fix it already. There is NO simple cure.
    need Boiler 101's Avatar
    need Boiler 101 Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Mar 5, 2007, 06:15 PM
    Thanks guys.. The house was previously a rental property with an owner as tight as tick and so the house and furnace were poorly maintained. Last week the nozzle was replaced for the first time in at least 8 years because I was ignorant about oil burners. I've only recently heard of turning the boiler off for an oil delivery and even more recently for how long. The drip was caused by bad atomization of the heating oil and this was corrected by the nozzle replacement and electrode adjustment performed by technician number two. As for the water pressure problems, I adjusted the water pressure myself after my helpful neighbor who previously did it hesitated in returning for two whole days to do it again. This last technician was from a different oil company and yet he did the same to me as the previous techi. The water pressure shot up to 30 psi in just 2 hours after he left. Pat me on the back -I fixed it myself after freezing for two days. The water feeder as I have discovered needs to be just to the right of the perpendicular, not all the way down and horizontal; and the water delivery valve needs to be open just a trickle and not wide arse open as he left it. Makes me wonder if modern water feeders are made to work with full water pressure; otherwise what they did looks very suspicious. I also wonder what they teach them in school and business nowadays. Caveat emptor (buyer beware) as the Romans used to say. The market place is full of tricks. I'm not cute anymore; I work and I pay the bills. My student discount expired ten years ago. I now have gray hair and wrinkles. Just keeping my eyes open and it sure is tiring to be hypervigilant. Many thanks to people who tried to help although the various diagnosese were way different than the actual fix in this case. Hago Nozzle internet literature was helpful to me when I needed to understand that comprimized oil spray from the nozzle can create a heating oil back drip. Why can't more people be as educational as I am? My neighbor told me I now sound fat and happy. Well HE certainly is anyway.. Wooh, Gawd Lawd! MMMMMM... Yes indeed! Does this read like fat and happy? Well I guess I am in a way. Thanks Again.. PEACE! ZORO
    studav8or's Avatar
    studav8or Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Nov 11, 2010, 06:52 AM
    You received answers with some rather large holes in them from supposed 'experts'. The first response I saw recommended an expensive replacement of the pump - just what I would expect of people in this industry. For other folks who find this page while searching for a solution to their problem, here is a comprehensive answer that has not been provided thus far:

    ****SOLUTION: Everything you need to know, from here: is pasted below:

    R. W. Beckett TECHNICAL
    FROM: Beckett Sales Support Program

    DATE: December 15, 1985

    PART: 664805


    Nozzle afterdrip has been a concern among servicemen for quite sometime. There are three basic causes for afterdrip. They are:

    1. A defective pump shut-off valve.
    2. Air entrapped in the nozzle line assembly.
    3. Oil expansion in the nozzle line assembly, due to radiated heat at shutdown.

    The first is relatively easy to diagnose. Here is a recommended test that will enable you to check the fuel unit shut-off characteristics.

    1. Install a reliable pressure gauge in the nozzle discharge port of the fuel unit. A gauge with a pressure range of 0-150 PSI should suffice. Make sure that all threaded joints are adequately sealed and tight.

    2. Start the burner and let it run for the duration of the safety timing cycle. When it locks out, the pressure should drop from the operating level to roughly 20% less, or substantially above 0 PSIG and hold indefinitely. If it fails to stabilize and slowly descends to 0 PSIG, then check the gauge fittings for leaks. If none can be found, replace the pump.

    Entrapped Air

    If air gets trapped in the nozzle line or adapter, it will cause afterdrip. This is what typically happens:

    1. Air at atmospheric pressure is approximately 14.7 PSI, and is compressible.
    2. When air trapped in the adapter is subjected to 100 PSIG, it is compressed to roughly 7 atmospheres. (14.7 x 7 = 102.9) This reduces the air volume to nearly 1/7 of its "atmospheric" size.

    3. When the burner shuts off, the pressure eases back to atmospheric, and the air bubble expands back to 7 times its compressed volume.

    4. This rapid expansion pushes oil out of the nozzle until the internal pressure equals the atmospheric pressure.

    5. An afterdrip occurs for several seconds. Usually a small stream of oil squirts into the hot chamber. A small, smoky fire may result, which can lead to delayed ignition, sooted heat exchangers and the odor of oil fumes.

    This condition is easily diagnosed by peering into the chamber upon burner shutdown and watching for the evidence of smoke and afterburn shortly after the main flame is extinguished. If there is no viewport, you can turn the power OFF and immediately tilt the transformer back and watch for the same evidence through the combustion head.

    Air can be eliminated by making sure that the oil supply lines are properly installed to the pump manufacturer's specifications. Use good flare fittings, but keep the number to a minimum. If the leak cannot be easily found, a more thorough pressure or vacuum test may have to be made on the piping. When the oil lines are leak-free, the oil delivery will be clear of froth and minute bubbles. You can check this at the nozzle discharge tube or at the bleed port.

    Initial Installation

    To help prevent afterdrip at the initial installation or at nozzle change time, pour some clean oil into the nozzle adapter while holding your thumb over the rear nozzle tube fitting. When the tube is nearly full, install the nozzle securely but do not over-tighten! With your thumb still blocking the opposite end, insert the assembly into the burner and quickly connect the pump discharge connector tube. Simple, but effective. Now you start from cycle one with very little air in the system. You do not have to wait for numerous cycles to eliminate the entrapped air bubbles.

    If you are working with a Beckett burner, it will have a built-in air vent plug. This device is inserted into the nozzle tube, rather than the adapter, so that it is always in place, even if someone changes the adapter. This plug has a small groove cut through its length at the top forcing high-velocity oil to pass through the reduced opening, thus breaking up large bubbles of air and purging the system quickly. Lower firing rate nozzles, however, do not allow a very large volume of oil to flow through the system, so air may be entrapped for longer duration. That is why many cycles may be required to eliminate all of the air.

    Heat As A Major Contributor

    Oil responds to heat in a very predictable way. For every degree F of rise in temperature, we get .04% expansion of volume. Of course, this is no problem during the operating cycle as long as it does not exceed 300°F, according to a leading nozzle manufacturer.

    The afterdrip occurs when the burner shuts down and the temperature of the oil in the nozzle line and adapter begins to rise. The amount of temperature rise determines the amount of volumetric expansion of the oil.

    Field experience shows that hard refractories, such as firebrick, tend to radiate more heat upon the nozzle and related components at burner shutdown. Therefore, the solution is to line an old refractory with a modern cerafelt or ceramic chamber liner. It will substantially reduce radiation due to its much lighter mass. Additionally, the cerafelt liner gives up its heat more readily during the OFF cycle. (See Figure 1.)

    It, also, is good practice to wrap a sleeve of cerafelt around the last few inches of the air tube up to, but not exceeding the combustion head. This will reduce the nozzle temperatures and afterdrip.

    664805-1.gif (51k)

    Additional Tips

    There are some additionally points to keep in mind. First make sure the burner is installed with a downward pitch so any afterdrip will run into the chamber and burn away during the next cycle. The second point is simply to know that a hydraulic cut-off normally produces at least one drop of oil per cycle. It's usually unnoticed if the burner is pitched properly. That is why a small drain hole is punched in every combustion head to allow any oil accumulation to run forward and harmlessly drip into the combustion area.

    Beckett burners are built with a slight downward pitch. However, if the installation is not level, or if the appliance mounting plate is not true, then the built-in angle of downward pitch can be quickly negated. One quick check is to pour a few drops of water from a small container such as a nozzle box, into the air tube when it is cool. The resultant flow will tell the story. An accurate pocket level placed into the air tube is another way. Usually, the problem can be easily corrected by raising the front of the appliance with appropriate shims.

    After trying all of the above, you still could encounter some oil running back to the chassis and dripping onto the floor or vestibule shelf. Excessive radiation from the refractory can cause the oil to migrate uphill. This occurs under certain adverse conditions.

    A solution that many have found to be effective involves applying a high temperature silicone rubber, such as 732 RTV Silastic by Dow Corning, to the air tube/burner chassis junction. First, thoroughly clean the bottom one third of the joint with a solvent, such as rubbing alcohol. When dry, apply the sealant. Some can be spread sparingly into the last couple of inches of the air tube seam to prevent any leakage here.

    Now, when the afterdrip occurs, due to elevated "soak" temperatures during the OFF cycle, the oil cannot find an escape route. Subsequently, when the burner cycles again, the blower pressurizes the air tube and the oil film is forced back through the weep hole in the combustion head. While this condition is rare, this sealant approach can eliminate nuisance call backs due to oil dripping from the burner housing.

    By following the above-mentioned guidelines, you will be able to successfully resolve the majority of your afterdrip problems.
    studav8or's Avatar
    studav8or Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Nov 11, 2010, 07:25 AM
    Now that I have given you the comprehensive answer, here is why I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU about the 'tricky oil guys.' I had a jackass tech come out and spend 9 hours in my basement and charge me over $850 for a simple $75 - $150 cleaning/servicing. I didn't know jack about oil burners at the time, but have since become an expert over the last several years and learned what a complete idiot the tech was. The bad news is that he MASSIVELY over-charged me and it took over 3 months to get the company owners involved to refund my money. Several 8-page letters I had written to the company describing the problem in detail had been 'lost' by the service manager who was trying to cover the bad hiring decision he made about the tech in question, so when I finally walked in to the place in person and found the owners, they fixed the over-charge the next day and told me the guy had been fired within days of my job because of other problems. The kind-of-good news is that (again, 3 months after the original date of service), they dispatched their top tech, refunded my entire $850, and he fixed the original problem in an hour (SOLUTION: Thorough cleaning, new nozzle.)

    OK, so this all started with what I didn't know at the time, but now know from a hundred hours since of reading about oil burners and repairing them, was a small puff-back. Simply put, I was an ignorant homeowner and didn't know that if you didn't regularly clean your oil-fired boiler, the heat exchanger would become sooted-up, the smoke wouldn't go through the flue, and it would make a smoky mess in your basement. Solution, like I said above, was a simple thorough cleaning, new nozzle, igniters, flame sensor, damper adjustment, new combustion chamber, smoke check, CO adjustment, pressure check, shutter and air adjustment, etc. - all the basic usual stuff that can be done for around $150 in 1 - 3 hours. I know this now, because I have educated myself on how to do all of these things - at the time, I didn't know jack ****.

    At any rate, here is why I have bad things to say about oil techs:

    1 - Of all the answers you received here, and of all the answers I have seen on other posts, the 'experts' fire back with either one-line (usually expensive) answers like 'the pump is bad, replace it', but yet a competent DIY'er like myself can Google up a comprehensive answer from Beckett in less than 5 minutes, or sarcasm.

    2 - The techs can't figure out why we have problems with them - apparently no one has ever marched into their basement, filled it with smoke, and tracked soot from one end of their basement to the other before.

    3 - And the big one: the idiot that came to my house, did ALL of the following things - it was the most UNBELIEVABLY BAD SERVICE YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE.

    A - Took 9 hours for a 1 to 3 hour job
    B - Trashed my basement with soot
    C - Massively over-charged me (again, over $850 for a simple $75 - $150 cleaning and servicing)
    D - Turned OFF 2 of my 3 zone circulators (for no F'ing reason - this had nothing to do with a puff-back problem) and LEFT THEM OFF when he was
    Done, so even after the boiler was functioning again, we had no freaking heat in 2/3 of the house.
    E - REPLACED, as part of the over-charge above, PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING, NON-CORRODED, PERFECTLY SERVICEABLE flue vent pipe
    Because he said it was 'dirty' (dime-thickness accumulation of soot inside that can be CLEANED... duuuhhhhhh!)
    F - WELDED my F'ing site-hole shut (yeah, genius - that will stop the freaking puff-back)
    G - Didn't even clean the damned boiler during the ENTIRE 9-hour ordeal
    H - DID NOT have a CO and smoke checker, adjusted the flame 'by sight' (I could freaking to it by sight - I wanted a professional adjustment)
    I - Not only did he adjust the smoke 'by sight', but he made ME help him by standing outside in the freezing cold and tell him what color the smoke
    J - Removed my already over-fired .75 GPH nozzle and replaced it with a MASSIVELY OVER-FIRED 1.25 GPH nozzle (which I didn't find out until
    Over a month later at my next fill-up when I found out that MY OIL CONSUMPTION HAD DOUBLED.
    K - Totally botched the damper setting (I watched the other tech shake his head in disgust when he fixed this 3 months later)

    I chased his company around for 3 months, threatened them with law suits, Better Business Bureau and the local news channel before they refunded my money Yes, I had already paid them the $850 because the last time this crap happened with a disreputable oil company, in addition to everything else, I didn't pay because they SCREWED ME, they took it to small claims court, got a judgment, then screwed my credit on top of screwing me. The oil company in the previous incident charged me $750 for a $350 oil delivery. I told them about the error, and after going back-and-forth with them for several months, and refusing to pay until they corrected the amount, they sued, won, had to pay the ENTIRE AMOUNT under a freaking court order, so public collection record on my credit that took 7 years to go away, and, with in a couple of weeks after paying the entire $750, they sent me a "Oh, we're sorry, you were right - we over-charged you, here is a check for the extra $400 you paid us", but of course, the judgment remained on my credit any way, and the credit reporting bureaus would not remove it.

    So yeah, BEWARE OF OIL TECHS AND OIL COMPANIES. I'm lucky the A-hole in question above didn't burn my freaking house down.
    studav8or's Avatar
    studav8or Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Nov 11, 2010, 07:32 AM
    Comment on studav8or's post
    Oh, left something out. The guy that came out also never even changed the oil filter.
    forevergreentre's Avatar
    forevergreentre Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Nov 20, 2012, 08:08 AM
    Where did you learn english and spelling?

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