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frankjuliusjr · Feb 10, 2011, 06:51 AM

I was recently fired from a home health agency for seniors for supposedly violating a hippaa law. As I was introducing a caregiver to a client, I ask her if her former client was in the hospital. All I said was "is Ms. Johnson in the hospital"?? I was turned in by this caregiver and fired over this so-called violation. I ask the company to show me where on the hippaa documents I broke the law, and they refused to produce any document. I was denied any unemployment benefits because of this. Do I have good reason to appeal my loss of benefits from my state, and do I have a wrongful termination case?? Thanks, Frank

ebaines · Feb 10, 2011, 07:34 AM

It is a violation oif HIPAA for a health care professional to disclose medical info without permission, unless it's for treatment other health care operations. You can argue that it is not a violation to ASK for medical informaton. But asking if Mrs Johnson is in the hospital strongly implies that you know she was in the hospital before, so one could argue that the way you asked the question was indeed a violation. Also, as a health care professional you must realize that asking for this information in front of another client put the other person in an awkward position, so at the very least it was unprofessional of you.

tickle · Feb 10, 2011, 07:35 AM

As you didn't actually divulge any highly confidential information about anyone, I don't know why this happened. It is a stretch to say you committed a HIPAA violation. Of course, unless there was something else going on between you and your employer in the same vane previously I don't see the point really. Had you been receiving any warnings from your employer about other issues ?

Tick

J_9 · Feb 10, 2011, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by ebaines

It is a violation oif HIPAA for a health care professional to disclose medical info without permission, unless it's for treatment other health care operations. You can argue that it is not a violation to ASK for medical informaton. But asking if Mrs Johnson is in the hospital strongly implies that you know she was in the hospital before, so one could argue that the way you asked the question was indeed a violation. Also, as a health care professional you must realize that asking for this information in front of another client put the other person in an awkward position, so at the very least it was unprofessional of you.

I concur! ;)

frankjuliusjr · Feb 11, 2011, 03:03 PM

Yes, there were other issues between myself and ownership. My job involved recruitment and retention for CNA's. When the CNA's had concerns, they brought them to me, and I took them to the senior staff. It turned into "shoot the messenger". The CNA's loved me because I was there advocate. One of the owners objected in giving me the job, but she was overruled. She continually tried to make me look bad so she could get a woman for my position. The person who took my job after my dismissal was a woman and she failed the drug test. The reason I know this is because I did her orientation, and I had access to her test. Now, I wonder if I could win a gender discrimination case with EEOC. I believe that the deal with the hipaa violation was blown out to proportion. I asked to see the article in the hipaa document that showed where the violation occurred, but they would not provide me with any proof. I was loved by 99% of the employess. The owners wife was my nemisis.

tickle · Feb 11, 2011, 04:32 PM

Hi frank, then take it as far as it can go if you think you have a case. I thought there was something else going on. Good luck.

Tick

ballengerb1 · Feb 11, 2011, 04:39 PM

Are you considered an "at will" employee like most? If so they can fire you for no reason at all if they want to. This was not a HIPAA violation to ask a question and if the caregiver answered that would not be a HIPAA either. However they can just feel it's the last straw and want you out. Now if you could prove that "she could get a woman for my position" and also prove that is why you were fired then you have a case with EEOC.

ScottGem · Feb 11, 2011, 05:19 PM

While I think it's a stretch, I believe there is enough for the company to cite HIPAA as justification for termination. But it may not be enough for HIPAA to take action.

It appears the company wanted to get rid of you and you gave them an excuse to do so.

ballengerb1 · Feb 11, 2011, 06:27 PM

I am not sure I agree on citing as a HIPAA violation. A violation is sharing confidential health information, not asking a question. If the caregiver answered that question I don't think that's a violation either, nothing confidential about someone being in a hospital.

ScottGem · Feb 11, 2011, 06:33 PM

It's borderline but the very fact of indicating that someone WAS in the hospital can be revealing medical info.

ballengerb1 · Feb 11, 2011, 06:36 PM

OK, I am in the hospital, what medical info do you now know about me that you did not know before? However, I think we agree on the other point, they wanted her out. In my last job as an HR director I demanded that no cause was to be stated if an at will employee was being terminated, best route to take. If you do give cause you may have to prove it later on.

Fr_Chuck · Feb 11, 2011, 08:57 PM

You say you were denied unemployment, did you appeal ? And ask them to prove their case in the appeal ?

tickle · Feb 12, 2011, 02:43 AM

As a healthcare professional governed by confidentiality rules, I know for sure I won't be committing a HIPAA violation if I say 'someone' is in the hospital to one of my clients; but if I say someone is in the hospital and their SIN is ***, then I have committed a violation because I have divulged that person's confidential information.

OP had other issues with his employers. These issues and this last one were probably the last straw and a good excuse for his employer to terminate. Employer was just laying in wait waiting for him to put his foot in it.

tick

ScottGem · Feb 12, 2011, 06:47 AM

Let me make my stand here clearer. If the agency charged with enforcing HIPAA were to investigate this, they would not find it a violation. But that's NOT what happened. The OP's employer decided to cite this as a violation to use to justify termination. The employer is not bound to follow the law here. They can simply say they feared a sanction. Remember also that they did not initiate it. Someone else reported it to them and they jumped on it.