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    learninglearner's Avatar
    learninglearner Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 7, 2009, 10:31 AM
    The American Community Survey (Census)
    My residence received this survey in the mail and has since received reminders and threats of penalty if the residence does not mail the completed form back as soon as possible after receiving it.

    I find the questions to be intrusive and I don't want to answer them and I don't want to participate in this survey but I'm being threatened by the government. I am not aware of what punishment I'm going to get if my residence fails to cooperate, but I am left with a sick to my stomach feeling about it. I don't think it is the government's business about how or what I heat my home with and how much I spend on electricity every month. Nor do I believe it is the government's business if I have and use hot and cold running water, a flush toilet, a bathtub or a shower, if I have a stove or a range, a refrigerator, or a line line phone or a cell phone. I don't think it is the gov's business to know how much I spend on water, electricity, and gas (and oil, kerosene, and wood) in a month and a year. And why do they want to know how much I THINK THIS HOUSE AND LOT, APARTMENT, OR MOBILE HOME would sell for, IF it were for sale?? <----Yes, the "survey" is full of questions like that.

    If I have a bachelor's degree, the gov wants me to tell them what my ancestry or ethnic origin is.

    Personal questions? Yep those too. Difficulty walking, climbing stairs, dressing, bathing, hearing, am I deaf? Blind? What year did I last get married? Did I do any work for pay LAST WEEK? Yes? WHERE, WHAT LOCATION? When did I last work, even for just a few days? How many weeks did I work in the PAST 12 MONTHS? On and on and on...


    Does anyone know the penalty for their "residence" not completeing the survey form and mailing it back? As far as I can tell 'they' only have my residence... they will only know my name and who I am IF I fill out the survey and mail it back.
    learninglearner's Avatar
    learninglearner Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #2

    Jun 7, 2009, 09:34 PM

    Ok I tried typing out some of the questions in the 'survey'

    The American Community Survey

    TO THE RESIDENT OF:

    Please complete this form and return it as soon as possible after receiving it in the mail.

    Start Here
    ->Please print today's date.
    ->Please print the name and telephone number of the person who is filling out this form.
    ->How many people are living or staying at this address?
    ->Fill out pages 2,3, and 4 for everyone, including yourself, who is living or staying at this address for more than 2 months. Then complete the rest of the form.
    1. What is person 1's name? Last name first, first name, middle initial.
    2. How is this person related to Person 1? X Person 1
    3. What is Person 1's sex?
    4. What is Person 1's age and what is Person 1's date of birth?
    5. Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
    __ No, not of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin
    __Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am, Chicano
    __Yes, Puerto Rican
    __Yes, Cuban
    __Yes, another Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin for example, Argentinean, Colombian, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Salvadoran, Spaniard, and so on.
    6. What is Person 1's race?
    __White
    __Black, African Am, or Negro
    __American Indian or Alaska Native (print name of tribe)
    __Asian Indian
    __Chinese
    __Filipino
    __Other Asian -for example, Hmong, Loatian, Thai, Pakistani, Cambodian, and so on.
    __Japanese
    __Korean
    __Vietnamese
    __Native Hawaiian
    __Guamanian or Chamorro
    __Samoan
    __Other Pacific Islander -for example, Fijian, Tongan, and so on.
    __Some other race (print race) ~human :)
    Repeat for everyone who is living or staying at the residence and this completes pages 2, 3, and 4.

    Here is the rest of the survey
    Housing
    1. Which best describes this building? (include all apartments, flats, etc. even if vacant)
    __A mobile home
    __A one-family house detached from any other house
    __A one-family house attached to one or more houses
    __A building with 2 apartments
    __A building with 3 or 4 apartments
    __A building with 5 to 9 apartments
    __A building with 10 to 19 apartments
    __A building with 20 to 49 apartments
    __A building with 50 or more apartments
    __A boat, RV, van, etc.
    2. About when was this building first built? (specify year)
    3. When did Person 1 (listed on page 2) move into this house, apartment, or mobile home? (specify month/year)
    ~Answer questions 4 - 6 if this is a HOUSE OR A MOBILE HOME; otherwise, SKIP to question 7a.
    4. How many acres is this house or mobile home on?
    __Less than 1 acre ->SKIP to question 6.
    __1 to 9.9 acres
    __10 or more acres
    5. IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, what were the actual sales of all agricultural products from this property?
    __None
    __$1 to $999
    __$1,000 to $2,499
    __$2,500 to $4,999
    __$5,000 to $9,999
    __$10,000 or more
    6. Is there a business (such as a store or barber shop) or a medical office on this property? Yes/No
    7. a. How many separate rooms are in this house, apartment, or mobile home? Rooms must be separated by built-in archways or walls that extend out at least 6 inches and go from floor to ceiling. INCLUDE bedrooms, kitchens, etc. EXCLUDE bathrooms, porches, balconies, foyers, halls, or unfinished basements.
    __Number of rooms
    b. How many of these rooms are bedrooms?
    8. Does this house, apartment, or mobile home have --
    a. hot and cold running water?
    b. a flush toilet?
    c. a bathtub or a shower?
    d. a sink with a faucet?
    e. a stove or range?
    f. a refrigerator?
    g. telephone service from which you can both make and receive calls, including cell phones?
    9. How many automobiles, vans, and trucks of one ton capacity or less are kept at home for use by members of this household? (choices are none through six or more)
    10.Which fuel is used most for heating this house, apartment, or mobile home? (9 choices)
    11. a. LAST MONTH, what was the cost of electricity for this house, apartment, or mobile home? (amount in dollars OR included in rent fee or no electricity used)
    b. LAST MONTH, what was the cost of gas for this house, apartment, or mobile home?
    c. IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, what was the cost of water and sewer for this house, apartment, or mobile home? If you have lived here less than 12 months estimate the cost in dollars OR included in rent fee or no charge.
    12. IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, did anyone in the household receive Food Stamps or a Food Stamp benefit card? Yes/No
    13. Is this house, apartment, or mobile home part of a condominium? Yes ->what is the condominium fee OR No
    14. Is this house, apartment, or mobile home - Mark (X) one box
    __Owned by you or someone in this household with a mortgage or loan? Include home equity loans.
    __Owned by you or someone in this household free and clear (without a mortgage or loan)?
    __Rented?
    __Occupied without payment of rent ->SKIP to C
    15. a. What is the monthly rent for this house, apartment, or mobile home? (monthly dollar amount)
    b. Does the monthly rent include any meals? Yes/No
    ~Answer questions 16 - 20 if you or someone else in this household IS BUYING this house, apartment, or mobile home. Otherwise SKIP to E on the next page.
    16. About how much do you think this house and lot, apartment, or mobile home (and lot, if owned) would sell for if it were for sale?
    17. What are the annual real estate tatxes on THIS property? (annual amount in dollars)
    18. What is the annual payment for fire, hazard, and flood insurance on THIS property? (annual dollar amount OR none)
    19. a. Do you or any member of this household have a mortgage, deed of trust, contract to purchase, or similar debt on THIS property?
    b. How much is the regular monthly mortgage payment on THIS property?
    c. Does the regular monthly mortgage payment include payments for real estate taxes on THIS property?
    d. Does the regular monthly mortgage payment include payments for fire, hazard, or flood insurance on THIS property?
    20. a. Do you or any member of this household have a second mortgage or a home equity loan on THIS property?
    b. How much is the regular monthly payment on all second or junior mortgages and all home equity loans on THIS property?
    21. What are the total annual costs for personal property taxes, site rent, registration fees, and license fees on THIS mobile home and its site?
    ~PAGE 8 Please copy the name of Person 1 from page 2, then continue answering questions below.
    (a continuation from question 6.)
    7. Where was this person born?
    8. Is this person a citizen of the United States?
    (9. TIRED OF TYPING
    10. )
    11.What is the highest degree or level of school this person has COMPLETED?
    12. This question focuses on this person's BACHELOR'S DEGREE. Please print specific majors this person has received.
    13. What is this person's ancestry or ethnic origin?

    OK ENOUGH ALREADY! It is a figgin book of questions, it goes on and on to 48 questions with multiple questions in most of those 48 questions and I'm not participating and would like to know if anyone can tell me what the penalty is and if there is any exceptions to the laws?

    How much trouble will I get in for not participating, and any idea whose idea this was?
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #3

    Jun 10, 2009, 06:38 PM
    Who are you supposed to mail this snail-mail phishing back to, anyway? The official census starts next year and you are required to inform them how many adults and how many minors live there. I don't know of any penalties for not doing it other than a census taker will come knocking at your door.
    KUXJ's Avatar
    KUXJ Posts: 975, Reputation: 97
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    #4

    Jun 10, 2009, 08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Who are you supposed to mail this snail-mail phishing back to, anyway? The official census starts next year and you are required to inform them how many adults and how many minors live there. I don't know of any penalties for not doing it other than a census taker will come knocking at your door.
    Catsmine, and learninglearner I jumped before I looked.

    Taken from here:
    What is the ACS (American Community Survey)?

    The Census Bureau maintains answers to all ACS questions are held in the strictest confidence, and that the information will help city planning efforts. In terms of commerce, business owners can use the ACS data base to see whether their services or products would benefit a particular geographic area. For example, Wal-Mart might decide to put an outlet in your neighborhood based on information provided by the ACS data base.

    The Census Bureau emphasizes that all questions must be answered. The ACS envelope arrives with a warning that a response is required by law. The form threatens a $100 fine for every question that goes unanswered, and a $500 fine for every question answered untruthfully.

    While big business no doubt benefits from having as much information about citizens as possible, many citizens are unwilling to give away their right to privacy. Hence, many are refusing to return the ACS. This automatically results in an additional ACS form being sent, followed by a series of phone calls. In 21% of the cases, an unannounced, personal visit from a Census Bureau representative follows in a final attempt to get the ACS completed. Often more than one visit takes place.

    In the end, however, the Census Bureau has no authority to enforce the laws that require the ACS be answered. The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance, but this is somewhat impractical given the number of ACS forms that are not returned, or returned incomplete. A lawsuit would likely draw media attention and a public outcry that would very probably bring an end to the ACS, or end mandatory compliance. As of early 2007, no legal action has been taken against anyone for refusing to answer the ACS.

    I know what I'm going to do, I'm not waiting for this to darken my door. I'm going to get in touch with my congressmen/women State and Federal, I'm also going to call all three of our local TV and Radio stations.

    :mad:"While big business no doubt benefits" :mad:

    The more light that is shed on this, the more it will shrivel up and die.

    learninglearner, find out the representatives in your area get them involved, and call your TV station's Help Lines

    Also:
    The American Community Survey, legal? - Google Search
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,302, Reputation: 7692
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    #5

    Jun 10, 2009, 09:22 PM

    I personally do not give out any personal information,

    I would put NC on each question ( I answered them) and send it back
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #6

    Jun 11, 2009, 02:26 AM
    Have they changed the name? That was NOT the title of the last census I filled out.
    KUXJ's Avatar
    KUXJ Posts: 975, Reputation: 97
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    #7

    Jun 11, 2009, 11:34 AM
    No, from what I understand it's used as an adjunct to the main census.
    I agree with you that it is a “snail-mail phishing” attack. From our own Government no less!

    IMHO; Somewhere along the line all the Big Box Lobbyist's went to the Census Bureau (CB), and said; Ya know, this census every ten years sucks, with the way the country is growing we need a better way to figure out where to plant our Boxes, because we're losin' too much money. So they got the CB to do their work for them, and “we” are paying for it!

    Sure there are plenty of other demographic surveys out there, But how many can put the threat of Legal action behind them to “scare” you into compliance?

    I'll tell you... NONE!

    How many malls are going to be built, before we put our collective foot down?
    How many stores are going to sit empty?
    How many more bail-outs?

    Now I see the reason why, and the Big Box Lobbyist's do not care. They will just use another ACS and move on to greener pastures.

    Please... Do not get me wrong, I do believe in a National Census, and for the reasons stated by our Fore Fathers, but they only needed a head count.

    Taken From:
    1790 Census of Population and Housing
    The six inquiries in 1790 called for the name of the head of the family and the number of persons in each household of the following descriptions: Free White males of 16 years and upward (to assess the country’s industrial and military potential), free White males under 16 years, free White females, all other free persons (by sex and color), and slaves.

    Taken From:
    FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Article I Section 2
    The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

    Taken From Clause 3:
    FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Article I: Annotations pg. 8 of 58The Census Requirement Section 2 Clause 3
    While Sec. 2 expressly provides for an enumeration of persons, Congress has repeatedly directed an enumeration not only of the free persons in the States, but also of those in the territories, and has required all persons over eighteen years of age to answer an ever- lengthening list of inquiries concerning their personal and economic affairs. This extended scope of the census has received the implied approval of the Supreme Court;
    Note; Underlining and bold were formatted by me.

    Depending on what “flavor” of 2010 Census you receive, you could get the short form and take 10” or the long and take 2 days.

    My protests have already been sent, the rest is all up to you.

    Here are some links:

    Contact Elected Officials: USA.gov

    EFF: Contacting Congress (& Other US Policymakers) Factsheet Contacting Congress (& Other US Policymakers):

    Complete E-Mail Addresses for Congress/House, Senate, Governors & State Legislators

    Write an E-Mail Message to Congress, the President and the Media!

    2010 Census: 2010 Census is Different

    2010 Census

    Taken From:

    FAQ (Page 1 of 13)

    Do I have to respond to the American Community Survey / Puerto Rico Community Survey?

    US Census Press Releases:2010 Census and Law Enforcement

    Is there a telephone number I can call to confirm that this is legitimate?
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #8

    Jun 11, 2009, 12:02 PM
    I think I'll still tell them how many adults and how many dependants and let them ring the doorbell all they want.(It's disconnected)
    learninglearner's Avatar
    learninglearner Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jun 11, 2009, 04:05 PM

    Well, I answered the questions with mostly non-answers such as I don't remember, I have no clue, I'm not sure, I don't know, etc. But I did fill in my name, age, and dob correctly.

    I have not mailed it back yet. I'm not sure I will mail it back. I do wonder if I'm going to be required to fill out the regular 2010 census as well as this longer survey census. I'm a little worried that if I complain, the CB will know I'm one that is not cooperating and one who can be charged with a crime for not answering their survey questions.

    If I should be charged I wonder if they would make room for me in federal prison?

    Thanks for the links, though like I said I'm kind of scared to complain now for fear the CB will know I must be one of them who got the stupid survey.
    learninglearner's Avatar
    learninglearner Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jun 20, 2009, 01:35 PM

    Update: I decided not to mail in the survey. I am not participating in this census. My residence has a private phone number so they can't call me. I'm hardly ever home and I never answer the door if I don't recognize or know who is knocking, and am not expecting a visitor.

    I understand why the government might want the information they are asking for but I am against how they have tried to strong arm me into answering personal questions against my will. I think the government can get the information they say they need in this survey in a more friendly, legal way, that is also entirely voluntary.

    I will participate in the 2010 census. If I am arrested for non-participation in this 'survey', I guess you'll never hear from me again ;)
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #11

    Jun 20, 2009, 01:56 PM

    Hello l:

    You sound like a person who stands for their Fourth Amendment rights to remain... "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonabale searches....".

    I wonder if you complained as loudly to your congressional representative about the NSA reading your emails and listening to your phone calls. They're probably going to read this very post.

    Frankly, I find that MUCH more intrusive.

    excon
    learninglearner's Avatar
    learninglearner Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jun 23, 2009, 06:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello l:

    You sound like a person who stands for their Fourth Amendment rights to remain ..."secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonabale searches....".

    I wonder if you complained as loudly to your congressional representative about the NSA reading your emails and listening to your phone calls. They're probably going to read this very post.

    Frankly, I find that MUCH more intrusive.

    excon
    I didn't hear about the NSA reading my emails and listening to my phone calls. I guess I'll just have to move now.. My residence's mailbox did receive the follow-up reminder post cards in the mail, those I ignored. Today when I got home and checked my mail I found a second American Community Survey, complete with the original threats. But it too was addressed to the resident. Gosh maybe I'll have to change my name too since if they really wanted to force the answers out of me they could do a check on who was living there when they sent the mail to that residence. :eek:

    I'll move to a new residence but will that be enough?
    321543's Avatar
    321543 Posts: 72, Reputation: 10
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    #13

    Jun 24, 2009, 05:15 PM

    Relax, they just want to know from every corner and person they can scrape a penny. From your pockets .

    Remember the Change that we all heard about , well this is it . The change in our pockets.

    As big business takes over and forces us all into forced labor.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #14

    Mar 10, 2010, 08:07 AM

    I took the survey 4 times over the phone . It was annoying and intrusive . But the Constitution mandates a census so I don't know where the line is drawn over the "privacy" issues. None of the questions asked for account numbers etc so although they got more information than I think is necessary for your typical body count ;I have no issues with the government asking or mandating responses .

    My only question is now that I have participated in the ACS will I also have to fill out the 2010 census ? It seems redundant at this point.
    rikkn's Avatar
    rikkn Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Apr 11, 2012, 04:43 PM
    OK, some pretty naïve & petty little anti-anything types here... I have been around a few years, served in top secret military functions, and have working knowledge of the government, what they know, and how they know it. Take it from me, in the simplest of words, fight battles that are worth something - these little anti survey rants are really kind of childish. Do you really think the government doesn't know who lives in the homes selected for the ACS?? They are addressed to "Resident" to maintain privacy under Title 13 requirements. Do you really think the government doesn't know where you work?? How many kids you have?? Your birthday?? Have you ever Googled yourself?? Like I said earlier, fight battles that are worth fighting.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #16

    Apr 11, 2012, 05:48 PM
    Hello r:

    You fight the battles YOU want, and I'll fight the ones I want.. I have a bit of experience with the government too..

    excon
    hbaybruce's Avatar
    hbaybruce Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Sep 3, 2013, 01:04 PM
    2013 They are still at it. My wife got a threatening phone call because their mailout wasn't returned. The guy wanted her to answer the questions over the phone. She said no. He told her she could go to the website if she didn't trust the phone, but she HAD to answer the questions...
    Big Brother is Watching YOU.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #18

    Sep 3, 2013, 02:07 PM
    Got mine over the weekend. Called them and they said that what I took in 2010 was just the census and I was one of the unlucky ones that was "randomly selected " to take a more detailed census. Now they "randomly" picked my address for this and gave me the spiel that communities use this for "planning " schools ,hospitals ,roads ,and other community needs" . In other words how to divvy up their confiscations for the purpose of wealth redistribution.

    I'll take it on line so the NSA can waste their time reading all the details .

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