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justabouthadit · Jan 21, 2006, 06:32 AM

My mom is elderly, 87yrs old. Her final request is that her house and property be sold and divided equally among the surviving children and one son in law. There has been a paper drawn and notorized expressing her final wishes.
Here is the dilema. My sister and brother in laws names are on the deed to her property. Something done 30yrs ago per the advice of some 'person'.
What I need to know is if my sister and her husband are legally bound to keep my mothers final wishes concerning her property.
She doesn't trust them now and neither do I.
Thanks for any help.
I live in Michigan if that helps with any possible answer.

justabouthadit

mr.yet · Jan 21, 2006, 06:53 AM

Here is a link to Michigan probate, may help

http://courts.co.calhoun.mi.us/notes000.htm

Good luck

Fr_Chuck · Jan 21, 2006, 08:24 AM

This can be a serious problem if they don't agree to do it. Best bet is to get all the people who are to divide the house added to the deed.

If they will not go along with the sell and division, this can end up being fought in probate court and spending more money than the house may be worth.

Before her death, she should go to a good attorney and have it all settled so that there is no legal problem.

justabouthadit · Jan 22, 2006, 05:16 AM

I wish to thank both parties for their responses! It has helped so very much.
My Mom was shocked to find out that what she thought was right might not be right after all...
Again.. I want to thank you both and your assistance here will be very appreciated.

justabouthadit...

fredg · Jan 22, 2006, 06:04 AM

Hi, justabouthadit,
You have received some very good answers.
I'd just like to add that in most states, the Will or Intent in this case notorized, usually is the law.
But, just to make sure, you and your Mom are removing all doubt by having all the person's names involved, added to the Deed. That will protect her wishes.
I do wish you and your Mom the best. It is MUCH better to get this worked out now... been there, done that... the hard way!

CaptainForest · Jan 22, 2006, 01:06 PM

Fr Chuck's advice about putting your name on the deed as well is a good idea.

However, I wish to point out a caution for your mother.

Since your sister's name is on the deed, if she gets into financial trouble, they can come after all her assets (and that includes your mother's house).

And the same will then apply if your name is on the deed.

Your best option is to remove your sister, but if that is going to be too much of a problem and you feel like you sister is OK financially, then have your name put on the deed.

justabouthadit · Jan 22, 2006, 03:04 PM

Wow.. I never realized the vast array of possibilities here.
I have discussed with my Mom adding my name to the deed. I hope it is not an expensive process. Money is tight all the way around, except of course for my sister, she is set financially.
Thanks again

Fr_Chuck · Jan 22, 2006, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainForest

Fr Chuck's advice about putting your name on the deed as well is a good idea.

However, I wish to point out a caution for your mother.

Since your sister's name is on the deed, if she gets into financial trouble, they can come after all her assets (and that includes your mother's house).

And the same will then apply if your name is on the deed.

Your best option is to remove your sister, but if that is going to be too much of a problem and you feel like you sister is ok financially, then go ahead and have your name put on the deed.

So right Capt,

Just on this site over the last couple of months, there have been people who have had their money or their mothers money taken out of the bank accounts because one of the people listed on the account had a debt that got a judgement on it. The same could happen with a house, if anyone of the listed parties had debts that went into court, a lien could be placed on the house, if they are a listed owner.

It works easier for me, as a only child, I had my name added to the bank account and the house, at least by what the attorney says, we don't even probate, at her death, I just become the sole owner. Hope I won't have to see how it works for many years,

justabouthadit · Feb 18, 2006, 07:09 AM

It has been awhile since I have responded to this dilema.
Unfortunately the findings were not good, not good at all.
Unless you have only one heir it is my advice to NEVER enter into a 'joint tenancy' agreement. To do so disinherits all of the other siblings and not only that you are actually signing away all of your rights to your property. You cannot even sell your own land without the permission of the other parties on the deed.
This is an unholy and immoral document that should be made illegal. It is done mostly by persons who wish to obtain a persons property free and clear. The original owner can NEVER change their minds... not ever and to even try would quickly clean out any or all of your savings.
Unsuspecting elderly or grieving persons are the once most vulnerable to this ruse.
Shame on the people who pull this dirty little trick.
Justabouthadit!

mr.yet · Feb 18, 2006, 07:21 AM

Since your mother has a will, it may to possible to challenge the deed, her final wish is that her asset be sold, she is part owner of the property, try to enforce her half of the asset as per her final wish in probate. Her name is on the Deed correct?? If nothing else the opposing party will have to fight to try and keep it>

Fr_Chuck · Feb 18, 2006, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by mr.yet

Since your mother has a will, it may to possible to challange the deed, her final wish is that her asset be sold, she is part owner of the property, try to enforce her half of the asset as per her final wish in probate. Her name is on the Deed correct??? If nothing else the opposing party will have to fight to try and keep it>

The problem there is that normally when more than one person is listed on the deed, the ownership transfers to them, does not even have to go to probate. This is one of the ways people transfer property without going to probate.

mr.yet · Feb 18, 2006, 07:37 AM

Just a thought, does your mother want to change the deed? Contact a attorney to whom will protect her rights, She can force a sell of the property while is able. Her can make the other buy out her half.

justabouthadit · Feb 18, 2006, 11:39 AM

It does not matter what her will states. Think of it as poker... Deed trumps Will. The deed is the higher hand.
My brother in law is demanding half of the value of the property BEFORE he will even consider signing off. Of course, my mother does not have any money and he knows it.
The attorney says Mom must prove what her 'intent' was at the signing of the deed back in 1976. My Mom just didn't understand what was being said on this deed. And, get this, it was prepared by a Probate Judge who knew full what he was doing. All these 29yrs my sister and her husband knew that had bilked my mother out of her land but never thought she would find out and she never would have had she not become suspicious of their actions and tried to add the rest of us to the deed. The proverbial 'stuff' really hit the fan. Accusations flew from their mouths as if they knew exactly what they wanted to say all along. Planned from the beginning. I have been accused of brainwashing my Mom and also accused of spending all of her money since she came to live with me because of no longer being able to care for herself. My sister wanted no part of taking care of her and my other brothers wouldn't and couldn't. The one wanting no part in it and the other sick with cancer, having a 3-5yr expectancy.
Funny, my Mom didn't have any money when she came because my sister had conned her out of what little she had a month before becoming ill and having to come and live with me. Yes, she encrued a gambling debt of $2500 that she didn't want her husband to find out about. My Mom, being kind hearted and generous gave her nearly all of what she had saved.
I quit my job to stay home and care for her but my sister refused to help and she only visited my Mom 5 times from July to Dec.
Why should she. She had what she wanted. EVERYTHING!
A joint tenance deed is evil to the core. Someone must have spent many a sleepless night coming up with this scam.
Justabouthadit.

justabouthadit · Feb 18, 2006, 11:44 AM

No... my sister and her husband cannot be forced to sign even though my Mom wants to sell. They want their half up front and in their hands first and then they may end up refusing anyway, just to be spiteful.
Fr. Chuck... what you said is exactly why my Mom added their names to the deed but it was not done to shut anyone else out of their inheritance.
I have learned and my Mom has learned and the lesson is stinging and painful.
Justabouthadit

justabouthadit · Feb 18, 2006, 01:15 PM

The following is the deed, I am tryping it as it is written minus names etc... please explain the special provision to me as it sure looks like my Mom is not being allowed her full rights.

Moms name, an adult woman
Address...

Moms name, brother in law and sister, husband and wife, as Joint Tenants with full rights of survivorship
City, State

Description of Property

Reserving, However, unto the Grantor herein, the sole right to use and occupy and to the income and profits from said premises during the remainder of her natural life.

No Real Estate Transfer Tax due as per provisions... etc

I would like to add that there are dates crossed out and changed, Not xxxx'd out but crossed out
I will also add this...
The upper portion was composed in Michigan but this part(the State name) is crossed out and changed to Alaska.
Not only that, it is not even the original deed but a copy. Shouldn't my Mom have the original.
I can tell because of the Notary stamp. There are no raised dots.
Can't they be forced to sign if my Mom chooses to sell?

Justabouthadit

justabouthadit · Feb 18, 2006, 05:42 PM

What does this mean..? Is this Moms way to get some kind of resolution?

Additionally, since there is nothing sacred about a joint tenancy, either joint tenant can sever that tenancy by conveying his or her interest to a third party. If that should occur, that third person would end up owning the property as tenants in common with the non-conveying owner.
http://realtytimes.com/rtnews/nlpage...&ID=patstarnes

mr.yet · Feb 19, 2006, 05:55 AM

The deed should have anything crossed out, that document must be free of mistakes. If you mother has the original deed check to see what it states, if not go to the court house in land records are get a certified copy of that document, it can serve as a orignial since the original had to be process there.

justabouthadit · Feb 19, 2006, 06:47 AM

I am sure learning from hard knocks! It is starting to appear as if this was blatant trickery from the beginning! Mom may hit a snag should she decide to transfer her interest because of that stupid paragraph stating she has sole use of land and profits.
You cannot tell me that wasn't deliberate deception.
There is no way my Mom would block out my other brothers nor me from their inheritance. There was 6 of us alive in 76. Since then 2 brothers have passed and one is dying now.
I have also found out 'they' cannot stop my Mom from selling. They must sign if it is being sold for fair market value.
Small consolation.
And, there is 'intent'. When Mom talked to 'them' about making a new deed they were so angry they erupted and spewed forth 'their' true intent. Saying, " I was going to do what you wanted but because you don't trust me I am not going to now"... For me that means they have always known Moms intent from the very beginning.
And there was two witnesses to the statement. All is not lost.
Thank you

Fr_Chuck · Feb 19, 2006, 08:36 AM

You need to go to the Court House and see what deed is recorded there.
It may or may not be exactly the way it appears on the copy you have.

With the deed they way it was shown, the house on her death becomes the property of the other person on the deed. Basically the deed allows her to live in the house till her death and the other "owners" can not force her to move until her death.