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    paulamiranda's Avatar
    paulamiranda Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Mar 26, 2008, 02:01 PM
    Restraining orders and child custody
    If you have a restraining order on a father of your children can they still appeal the restraining order and ask for full custody even when they have never had any custody and only visitaion or been involved child's life?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    Mar 26, 2008, 02:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paulamiranda
    if you have a restraining order on a father of your children can they still appeal the restraining order and ask for full custody even when they have never had any custody and only visitaion or been involved childs life?

    I believe these are two unrelated issues - even if the father has never been involved, never had custody, unless he is abusive or dangerous to the children in some way he has a right to visitation. Full custody, I don't know - he'd have to prove you are unfit.

    The fact that YOU have a restraining order against him probably does not affect his visitation with his children. At best he might be awarded supervised visitation and then work toward getting unsupervised visitation.

    Basically he can ask for anything he wants - it's what he may or may not get that the Court decides.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #3

    Mar 28, 2008, 12:24 AM
    In some states, abusing the mother is considered damaging to the children. So if your restraining order is the result of abuse of any kind, then it could impact the father's efforts to gain custody. It would depend on the state and the particular judge.

    In general, abusive men are more likely to ask for full custody of children, as a way of punishing the mother, and such men are, on average, more likely to succeed in getting full custody than non abusive men*. You need a good lawyer who understands cases like yours. Don't put off getting help. At the least, consult someone at a women's shelter. Keep talking to people until you find someone who can help.

    *There are so few cases of women doing this, that there is no similar data, but I'm not saying women are never abusive.
    Mom of 2's Avatar
    Mom of 2 Posts: 449, Reputation: 90
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    #4

    Mar 28, 2008, 12:29 AM
    Consult with your attorney. If you don't have one, then you need to get one. Keep in mind that a bully will try and make you think what they want you to think in order to scare you. I went through a very similar experience, so my thoughts are with you. I hope it all works out.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #5

    Mar 28, 2008, 05:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by asking
    In some states, abusing the mother is considered damaging to the children. So if your restraining order is the result of abuse of any kind, then it could impact the father's efforts to gain custody. It would depend on the state and the particular judge.

    In general, abusive men are more likely to ask for full custody of children, as a way of punishing the mother, and such men are, on average, more likely to succeed in getting full custody than non abusive men*. You need a good lawyer who understands cases like yours. Don't put off getting help. At the least, consult someone at a women's shelter. Keep talking to people until you find someone who can help.

    *There are so few cases of women doing this, that there is no similar data, but I'm not saying women are never abusive.


    There is nothing about physical or mental abuse in OP's question. Not that it couldn't go that way but it could be stalking, keeping him out of the marital home (it is not unusual where I live to get a restraining order if a couple splits up and one is ordered out of the house, even though the party ordered out has never attempted re-entry - just makes it easier for the Police if the party ordered out has to be removed). Agreed stalking can turn into abuse but I'm not seeing that right now.

    Why do you think she needs a women's shelter or someone who can help? She already has a restraining order - ?

    I have never seen the statistic that men who abuse are more likely to file for custody - do you have a site?
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #6

    Mar 28, 2008, 11:13 AM
    Yes, I said a restraining order MIGHT indicate abuse. Stalking is a form of abuse, since it ignores limits that normal healthy people respect. In any case, we don't know what the situation with paulamiranda is, I agree. It was just a thought.

    I have never seen the statistic that men who abuse are more likely to file for custody - do you have a site?
    Yes. I read it in a referenced books (with lots of footnotes!) But here is something online, for example. I think this fact is pretty widely accepted now.

    The Leadership Council - Custody Myths

    Myth 3: Custody transfers to abusive parents are rare.

    Some have suggested that custody transfers to abusive parents are rare events. Most of us would like to believe this. Unfortunately, empirical research examining this issue has repeatedly shown that men who ask for custody of their children often get it, whether they have a history of violence.

    Although women are more likely to get custody of their children, this is often because they are more likely to ask for it. When men ask for custody, they often get it. According to a report by the American Psychological Association, an abusive man is more likely than a nonviolent father to seek sole physical custody of his children and may be just as likely (or even more likely) to be awarded custody as the mother (APA, 1996). A report by the American Judges Foundation, reported that 70% of the time an abuser who requests custody is able to convince the court to give it to him.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #7

    Mar 28, 2008, 11:16 AM
    Batterers and other abusers are VERY persuasive! That's how they get others to marry them.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #8

    Mar 28, 2008, 11:53 AM
    [QUOTE=asking]Yes, I said a restraining order MIGHT indicate abuse. Stalking is a form of abuse, since it ignores limits that normal healthy people respect. In any case, we don't know what the situation with paulamiranda is, I agree. It was just a thought.


    Yes. I read it in a referenced books (with lots of footnotes!) But here is something online, for example. I think this fact is pretty widely accepted now.



    I have a problem with reference books that use the word "often" (as in "when men ask for custody they OFTEN get it").

    I am far more likely to believe statistics. I'd like to see how many of these custody cases are contested - just standing up there, abusive man or not, and being persuasive does not work in NYS. You need proof that the other parent is a danger to the child. This is also a 1996 study which is right on the cusp of domestic violence being recognized and prosecuted.

    Now, does the abusive partner frighten the other partner into not filing for custody - possibly.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #9

    Mar 28, 2008, 03:23 PM
    [QUOTE=JudyKayTee]
    Quote Originally Posted by asking
    I have a problem with reference books that use the word "often" (as in "when men ask for custody they OFTEN get it").
    That's interesting. I was just talking to some colleagues about that exact thing, that we all tend to believe numbers more than words, even though numbers can be wrong too. But I know what you mean. You like to see people commit to an actual figure.

    [QUOTE=JudyKayTee]
    Quote Originally Posted by asking
    I'd like to see how many of these custody cases are contested - just standing up there, abusive man or not, and being persuasive does not work in NYS. You need proof that the other parent is a danger to the child. This is also a 1996 study which is right on the cusp of domestic violence being recognized and prosecuted.

    Now, does the abusive partner frighten the other partner into not filing for custody - possibly.
    The fact that you need proof that the other parent is abusive is exactly why it's easy for abusive parents to get custody--it's hard to prove someone is abusive. Most people aren't abusive when there's a witness there to testify, take pictures, etc. It'd be pretty dumb to be abusive with a witness right there!

    The abusive partner absolutely frightens the partner into not fighting him/her, whether in court or elsewhere. It doesn't have to be violence either. The abusive partner could threaten to hurt a third party emotionally--say refuse to let a dying grandparent see their grandchild, or hurt a child, or neglect a pet the abuser has access to. The threat can be really vague even, but if the non abusive partner knows something bad will happen if they speak up and has no proof of abuse that a court would accept, there's not much they can do. If they bring up abuse in court without proof, they can be accused of making things up, and then things are even worse for them, both in terms of court decisions and revenge from the abuser. But we've gotten way off topic for this thread.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,272, Reputation: 7690
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    #10

    Mar 28, 2008, 04:42 PM
    Can they file and go to court, yes of course they can, the evidence of the restraining order, the danger he is to the children, and he will have to prove there is an issue with your skills as a parent.

    The court will look at the validity of the restraining order ** I am sure yours is real but there are many filed all the time just as a method of getting back at the other.
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    sammyandcoach Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Feb 21, 2011, 10:55 AM
    All I can say is that if you had my judge, you wouldn't even need an attorney. Good luck, you;ve got the edge...
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,505, Reputation: 4600
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    #12

    Feb 21, 2011, 03:08 PM

    This thread is from 2008 - what is your advice?
    Chem79's Avatar
    Chem79 Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jun 18, 2012, 03:50 PM
    I have a major concern for my sister.. She finally left her boyfriend and father of her four children.. got a restraining order and he also now has child endangerment against him (he beat her regularly and was caught threatening to murder her and the children). Now he is threatening to take full custody of the kids. What are her rights? I am so proud that she finally got away from him, but now he is finding new ways to torment her and the kids.
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #14

    Jun 18, 2012, 05:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chem79 View Post
    ... What are her rights? ...
    Same as those rights he has, or any parent in the absence of a custody order: to go to court and seek to get a specific custody and visitation order.

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