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    choosinganangel's Avatar
    choosinganangel Posts: 54, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Feb 2, 2014, 11:53 AM
    Kidnapping, Breach of Agreement, How to get my child back!
    In 2001 I was awarded sole legal and physical custody of the child in question in the dispute of paternity. This was done by stipulation and agreement of the parties incorporated into a final decree. Father was granted to pay support, keep medical and if he wanted to exercise visitation he had to call 24 hours in advance or it was a no go.

    In 2006, October, I was hospitalized on the 4th. On October 6, 2006 the father came down with faked legal documents and insisted my mother (was caring for my children temporarily) give our child to him.

    On October 13 I was released to find my child had been taken out of state by the parent with no rights just obligations.

    For 6 months he held the child against his will and refused my demands to return the child, and suddenly he sends a "new decree" saying he's got sole custody, and yet our original stipulation and agreement forever discharged each party from any and all claims demands or actions asserted in the Cross-Claim. (his requests were custody, visitation, support and insurance coverage of child)... how could he even have a new decree based on this alone? Didn't he just agree in initial decree to no parental rights, just obligations?
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #2

    Feb 2, 2014, 12:00 PM
    You can't give up future rights. What was in writing and approved by the courts wasnt totally valid when it was signed off. Either parent could have gone back and have it changed. There wasnt an adoption or anything of the sort. So it wasnt meant to be forever.

    The time to act would have been back in 2006. What is the reasoning for waiting until 2014 to do anything about it? What courts were used for the first agreement and then the one you claim he has now? Were they different? If so did they follow the rules of uccjea ?

    Do you have a lawyer working on this? What has changed ?
    stinawords's Avatar
    stinawords Posts: 2,071, Reputation: 150
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    #3

    Feb 2, 2014, 12:32 PM
    So 7 1/2 years ago your ex, the father of the child, took the child. And now you are wanting to do something about it? What state are you in? What state is the child in? What have you been doing for the last 7 1/2 years? As already pointed out agreements like that can be changed by going back to court. The original court order was back in 2001 by 2006 a judge would listen to the case again if one of the parties petitioned the court for a modification.

    Have you kept in contact with the other parent and child? You are asking how to get the child back. I would recommend getting a lawyer in whatever area has jurisdiction now and go back to court. How old is the child now? S/he has to be at least 12 (but probably older). In some states, not all, if the child (of that age or older) has a preference the judge will listen to what the child wants. That doesn't mean the child gets to choose but that the judge will take their opinion into consideration.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #4

    Feb 2, 2014, 01:14 PM
    First, how do you know the documents he used in 2006 were faked? Second, what court issued this decree?

    But the question of what have you been doing for 7 1/2 yrs is valid. While parental kidnapping was not as well established then as it is now. The facts, according to you, are that he violated a standing court order and grabbed the child and has been keeping the child from you.

    What you should have done is go to the court that issued the order and ask that a warrant be issued for him to return the child or face arrest for contempt of court. Such an order would have been honored by another state. If he was hiding from you, I would have called in the
    FBI.

    As cdad stated, unless rights were terminated, he had a right to go back to court and apply for a change. But he would have had to go back to the court that issued the original order and you would have had to have been informed and given a chance to respond.

    So for us to help, we really need to know what has been happening since 2006. Also any question on law needs to include your general locale as laws vary by area.
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #5

    Feb 2, 2014, 03:06 PM
    Other than the obvious question of why she has apparently done nothing for the past eight years, I would also point out that
    1. The second decree appears to be invalid as being in violation of OCCJEA; and
    2. The second decree would have problems for apparent invalid service of process.

    OP needs to get an attorney of course.
    choosinganangel's Avatar
    choosinganangel Posts: 54, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Feb 3, 2014, 01:33 AM
    Okay, here's the facts.

    After I got out of the hospital, my mother said he handed her legal documents, which were fraudulent cause no judge signed them. The one the judge did sign said specifically, "Must be served on the defendant". So he knew I was in the hospital, couldn't serve me, so he left my mother with what she had no idea were not legal papers. I called him immediately to demand he bring my child back because he was going against a court order, and he laughed and said I was never going to get custody of my child again and hung up. Refused calls, mail, texts wouldn't respond, emails and such. Meanwhile I've got DCFS in my life (the child he took was in their records too) and yes I knew jurisdiction was here, so when he finally "served me by certified mail" on the 16th of October, (mind you this is 10 days now he kidnapped my child) I responded with how he lied about everything he claimed in the temporary order. He claimed being the primary parent, the child lived in his state for 6 months and so on. I then put in my own motion to dismiss based on improper venue, and for some odd fricken reason, I didn't get any response on anything, and mind you I'm still dealing with DCFS down here, and finally I get a notice of hearing on April 4, 2007!! He totally kidnapped my child for 6.5 months before a hearing was set!! In that time, he changed where he lived, never notifying me, wouldn't answer my calls and when he did wouldn't let me talk to my son, and would never allow me to visit or see my son.

    Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything... but after I got home, praying to get some money to get my son back, I start getting things in the mail, like a response to my motion to dismiss... (backdated Nov 15, 2006) even though the petitioners attorney had no clue of the motion on file on April 5, 2007... then child support order and this fraudulent modified custody order... so I had no clue what to do.

    I knew what he was doing to my son mentally and I knew he had money for attorneys and I didn't so I didn't want to do anything till I could assure my child wouldn't have to go through any "if ands or butts anymore" and let's just say I'm not a rich person by any means.

    Well in December last year, 2013, after months of being denied or (not answered) I tried getting visitation, and instead I got belittled, yelled at, threatened my life, and so I got mad, real mad. I mean this guy has tried to alienate me and my child from one another, demeaned me and tried to convince my child to hate me in every way possible, and I'd had it. So I started ordering all the court files on record. I found there is no Motion to Modify Custody, there is no affidavit to a motion to modify, and then I remembered how he got my son! He tried to get police to serve illegal documents on my mother and they refused, so I called the police in the city I used to live, and low and behold, they had record of him coming in with documents they would not serve because they lacked a judge's signature. He then asked them" if they could assist him in keeping the peace while he got his son from the bus stop". He had no set visitation, and I was never given 24 hour notice as stated to be required if he wanted to exercise visitation. So as the police stood by trying to "supposedly keep the peace" he handed my mother these illegal documents, saying, "Just pack his things, you don't want to cause a scene, and that's why the police are here."... I hate him!!

    And yes, it took me 7 years, to figure out that the documents were fraudulent because I thought... or trusted, that you can't just file illegal documents in any court file you want to and it's acknowledged as legal. And yes, under the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act, the jurisdiction was here, until he kidnapped him for 6.5 months. Which is why I didn't understand why my motion to dismissed based on Improper Venue was not accepted. But hello, it should have been by default! ARGH! Oh and the decree is by stipulation and agreement, (he's only got rights to pay child support, provide medical insurance, and if I say, have visitation.)
    choosinganangel's Avatar
    choosinganangel Posts: 54, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Feb 3, 2014, 01:38 AM
    Oh and just since I forgot, in my ranting off facts, I was in Utah, and he was Wyoming. The initial decree was issued in Wyoming, but it was to be a full, complete, binding and final decree and it states here, "Any Court Order or Decree pursuant to WS 20-2-201 -204 and 311(d) can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or petition for modification.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #8

    Feb 3, 2014, 05:40 AM
    Did the police, in fact, come with him to get your son? If so and you have proof that the police knew the documents were not valid, I would file suit against the police department.

    You didn't make it clear what the DCFS issue was about.

    But the bottom line here is that he violated a court order. It may be too late now to get the Wyoming court to issue a warrant, but that's the first thing I would try. I would also go to the FBI and pursue parental kidnapping charges.

    Part of the problem here is that you were going up against his lawyers without one of your own. That's a recipe for disaster. His lawyers will know how to play the system.

    How old is your son now? He would have to be at least 14. Frankly, with more than 6 years of brain washing, it might be impossible to recover him.
    stinawords's Avatar
    stinawords Posts: 2,071, Reputation: 150
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    #9

    Feb 3, 2014, 07:54 AM
    Okay, so if I'm reading this right, you were in Wyoming when the original order back in 2001 was made. If that is true, how long after did you move to Utah? That decree is final until modified by the court again. That is why it says that it "can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filling an appropriate motion or petition for modification." Meaning that the modification would not be valid before anyone filled for the modification but can be modified. It wasn't set in stone forever with out the possibility of change.

    That being said I agree that your biggest downfall was trying to fight his attorney(s) by yourself. Did you make DCFS aware that he was no longer with you? Did that help to clear up their concerns about him or make it worse? Have you talked to a couple attorneys to see what they want to take on your case?

    You also said that you checked with the court and no motions for modification were ever filled. Did you check with both courts or just one? Knowing that he has at least one lawyer they would know what and where to file.
    choosinganangel's Avatar
    choosinganangel Posts: 54, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Feb 3, 2014, 08:15 AM
    The police don't say they assisted in keeping the peace, but they didn't say they didn't either. Yes, I have the police narratives that say the police told him they needed something signed by a judge.

    My son wants to be here, and I'm fighting cause he's ruined my child as far as mental and physical and emotional health go. Shortly after being stolen by his paternal parent, he was diagnosed emotionally disturbed. Now he's severely emotionally disturbed. Weighs 194 lbs, hasn't been to get a blood draw in the 2 years he's been on Abilify and has not been to a dentist in two years and has obvious cavities. Oh let us not forget that I have proof that the father changed the middle name of the child so he could put him in schools and I am thinking so he could get illegal medicaid.

    Oh wait, his father also has a child abuse charge from 3 years prior to the kidnapping, and I have him recorded stating he hates me and my other child (who he has been stalking), because we told the police and he lost his teaching career. I mean shall I go on?

    I am putting in a motion to vacate the order he put in, due to improper process and fraud and illegal activity by the father that led to the falsified order. The judge sent it back stating a couple things, so I think he's telling me to ensure the points in the motion. His note was "I will not sign. No compliance with notice requirements of Rule 65. No compliance with the Rule 801 Uniform Rules for District Court. No showing this court has jurisdiction."

    So does this mean I have to put in a certificate of service to the kidnapper with the motion and claim the jurisdiction is in the court pursuant to the Wyoming Statute 20-2-203?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,216, Reputation: 10853
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    #11

    Feb 3, 2014, 08:21 AM
    Why have you not called the states attorney where he lives or the DCFS in the state he resides? You paint a compelling case for criminal charges.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #12

    Feb 3, 2014, 08:56 AM
    I think stinawords may have misread something or I did. I got the impression that you got the original order in WY and you are still there, but that the father moved the child to Utah. Is that correct?

    I must have misunderstood. I thought you said the police went with him to pick up your son.

    But I agree with Tal. Go to the local FBI office TODAY with what proof you have. Seek their advice or assistance.

    From what you have said, it sounded like you have had little or no contact, so how do you know so much your son's medical conditions and treatment? And you never answered how old he is.

    As for filing a petition with the court. The judge is apparently being a stickler for form and wants the paperwork filled out properly. Probably because he knows your husband has attorneys so wants to make sure they can't tear things apart. If you can't afford an attorney, then check with local law schools. Many have clinics that will help you prepare the paperwork.

    But you have to be relentless with this and you haven't been.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #13

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:09 AM
    I dont agree with going to the FBI at this time. There really is no reason for it. The OP needs to calm down if they want to get anywhere.

    To OP:

    How much of the paper trail do you actually have in hand at this time? Are you sure you have all of it? If the case priginated in Wyoming then it is for now the juridiction of the Wyoming dourts so long as one of the parties still lives there. That is the only court you need to deal with.

    You can try overturning for improper service but so much time has passed I think it is a waste of time. You can file for a modification and present your evidence at the hearing / trial. Otherwise you risk wasting the courts time with accusations and rehashing the past.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #14

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:21 AM
    I don't believe filing for a modification is the best move. Doing so tacitly acknowledges the false petitions filed by the father. The OP has a standing order issued by the court. According to her, no valid court orders have been issued to change that order. Therefore any attempts to process an order by another court should be vacated as lacking jurisdiction and the existing order should be enforced.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,216, Reputation: 10853
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    #15

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:28 AM
    The OP has two states attorneys to air her concerns and initiate an investigation Wyoming and Utah. I would contact them both.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #16

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:28 AM
    Here in lies the problem. We dont know how much of the paper trail the OP is actually seeing. Also it appears that somewhere along the line there is a secondary standing order from the courts. The one the OP makes claim of from 2007. Too much time has passed to hold the courts interest and the ultimate goal is the return of the child. By filing for a modification then it can all be laid out. If the OP is correct then the courts will make the change. If not then things will stand as they are. I understand the OP is upset but they are making allegations and then proving them false in this thread. If you have no contact that is exactly what it means. But yet they claim to know the condition of the child and to have spoken to them. Which is it? The courts have the power to quash the previous order if it has no standing. But if the OP goes in making wild claims and it is of no legal standing then the courts will weight it out and make a decision.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #17

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:34 AM
    I do agree the OP has issued some conflicting statements. I've questioned some of them too. And the amount of time that has passed is a cause for concern. I'm just not sure any admission that any order issued after 2001 is valid would serve the OP. At lot depends, though, on how factual the information she's posted is.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,687, Reputation: 1438
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    #18

    Feb 3, 2014, 11:51 AM
    This is what I see that has the most telling part of this so far.

    The OP said:
    Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything...

    To me it means they attended the hearing that was in 2007. It doesnt appear that things were followed through at that time. The OP was there in front of a judge when the decision was made. It appears the OP was given time to attend as the hearing was for a default judement. From those events Im not sure what has been going on. I believe the OP tried to go at it alone and was overwhelemed. Its not hard to do with the judicial system. But they did have thier day in court. That is why I dont recommend going to the FBI at this time. If OP can prove documents were falsified then the judge can order that looked into by the Ag.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,216, Reputation: 10853
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    #19

    Feb 3, 2014, 12:29 PM
    There are too many unknown factors and inconsistencies for any of us to assume what the OP's next action should be except borrow money for a real consultation with a lawyer (free consultation?) or file a complaint for free with state officials.

    Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #20

    Feb 3, 2014, 12:38 PM
    Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.
    Totally agree. Plus an ex who had money and could manipulate the system. Just wondering why it took him 5 years to pull this in the first place. Maybe he just saw his opportunity when the OP was hospitalized. Though this smacks of some planning.

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