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    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Oct 26, 2009, 08:19 PM
    Father has custody; won't follow what judge ordered
    My daughter has been going through a custody battle for almost 5 years. The divorce was final , it's the custody that continues on. They had joint custody until he got re-married. He takes my daughter back to court again, and the judge awarded him with full custody. In the hearing papers the judge said this seems to be a full family ( she had 2 boys also ) and would be a more stable environment for the boys .
    Also, in the papers the judge ordered : alternate holidays, having extra time at Christmas, needs to give my daughter copies of the insurance cards, and show his income tax returns to her and she shows hers' to him. To be able to call and talk to her sons, without being on a speaker phone or having the phone not answered, extending visits and more over nights, not to drill the boys after visits. etc. He refuses any of these, and continues to live his new life. He told my daughter she and all her family were in his past and not in the present or his future. We have spent over $6000.00 on lawyers but none want to battle. What can she do now?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    Oct 26, 2009, 08:33 PM

    If he is in violation of a Court Order her only choice is to take him back to Court for violating the Court Order - hold him in contempt - and request that HE pay HER legal fees.

    I don't understand, if she's not a danger to the child or unfit, how she lost custody - ?

    How old are the children? Was someone appointed to represent their interests?
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Oct 27, 2009, 09:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    If he is in violation of a Court Order her only choice is to take him back to Court for violating the Court Order - hold him in contempt - and request that HE pay HER legal fees.

    I don't understand, if she's not a danger to the child or unfit, how she lost custody - ?

    How old are the children? Was someone appointed to represent their interests?
    Judy,
    I should have been specific in this problem. To make a very long story short I will sum it up quickly. Her ex-husband bought meth and gave it to her so the "sex" would be more thrilling. Little did she know he didn't use any just her. The very next day he called the DHS and told them she was doing drugs. They came to the house asked her if she had done drugs, she said yes. She also told them she had been sick all night and wasn't sure why. ( maybe the drug, I think ) It stays in your system up to 5 days so when she went that day she tested positive. That's when all hell broke loose. The ex had made plans on moving out, this was his way of taking the boys ( ages then 7 and 3 ) from her. Yes there was an attorney to represent the boys, but, he never spoke to them he just went along with the DHS. I hope this gets to you Judy
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #4

    Oct 28, 2009, 09:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpin22 View Post
    Judy,
    I should have been specific in this problem. To make a very long story short I will sum it up quickly. Her ex-husband bought meth and gave it to her so the "sex" would be more thrilling. Little did she know he didn't use any just her. The very next day he called the DHS and told them she was doing drugs. They came to the house asked her if she had done drugs, she said yes. She also told them she had been sick all night and wasn't sure why. ( maybe the drug, I think ) It stays in your system up to 5 days so when she went that day she tested positive. That's when all hell broke loose. The ex had made plans on moving out, this was his way of taking the boys ( ages then 7 and 3 ) from her. Yes there was an attorney to represent the boys, but, he never spoke to them he just went along with the DHS. I hope this gets to you Judy


    Wow! My knee jerk reaction is "how can you possibly believe this is what happened?" but, upon thinking about it, I do believe you. I've heard stranger things than this!

    Okay - then I still say she needs to go back to Court and request that the previous Order be upheld, that her "ex" be held in contempt. She can also request that that Order be changed/modified to give her more visitation, if that is what she would like, and possibly custody if she has had regular clean testing.

    If she tested positive for drugs I can see the position that the Court took and (in theory) the Attorney who was representing the interests of the children. They only see what is right in front of their faces.

    Sounds like a horrible situation. Please keep us informed.
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Oct 28, 2009, 07:34 PM

    Judy, I know how odd this all sounds or should I say crazy. What upsets me the most is this "man"( which isn't in my eyes ) would never play with his sons after work. He always said,"I've worked all day and shouldn't have to come home and play with the boys or kiss you. As far as trying to get a modification done, they told my daughter she couldn' t do it, because there hadn't been enough changes since the last filing. What does that mean? I will give this information to my daughter and together we will get those boys back.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #6

    Oct 29, 2009, 06:03 AM

    The Court undoubtedly has "rules" as to how quickly she can go back and request a modification. It varies from State to State and from circumstance to circumstance.

    The best she can do is stay clean (and I realize she IS clean but she has to prove it) and wait for the time to pass. Staying clean - if she has been accused of using - is in itself a changed circumstance... but she undoubtedly has to work her way through the time frame.

    This will be an ongoing matter but I do believe if she persists she will gradually get more and more visitation and very probably custody.

    She is fortunate to have you in her corner - and I'm the first one to say that personal advice does not belong on the board so pretend I didn't say that.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #7

    Oct 29, 2009, 06:32 AM

    She also needs to keep a log about each attempt to to call, see the children, etc. What he said and did. He is under a court order and he has to abide by it or be cited for contempt of court. When was this order issued? Has she been back to court since?
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
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    #8

    Oct 29, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    She also needs to keep a log about each attempt to to call, see the children, etc. What he said and did. He is under a court order and he has to abide by it or be cited for contempt of court. When was this order issued? Has she been back to court since?
    Id like to add that when making calls etc there needs to be time in between and not call every 5 minutes for 2 hours. Some people just don't get that part. The call logs are not a weapon but a tool.
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Oct 30, 2009, 12:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    She also needs to keep a log about each attempt to to call, see the children, etc. What he said and did. He is under a court order and he has to abide by it or be cited for contempt of court. When was this order issued? Has she been back to court since?
    We discussed the same thing today about keeping a log book. The order was a year ago, and she went back to court last month, which didn't help. When this nasty divorce started, I kept records on everything he said or did, and when we went to court I had 7 pages of incidents. Her lawyer said we aren't here to put your ex down, we are here to get the boys back. So, shouldn't the lawyer want to use this against him?? Sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel.
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    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Oct 30, 2009, 12:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by califdadof3 View Post
    Id like to add that when making calls etc there needs to be time in between and not call every 5 minutes for 2 hours. Some people just dont get that part. The call logs are not a weapon but a tool.
    My daughter calls her sons every night at 7:00 and talks about 15 min. The time she has talking to her sons, should be their time. He should not put the phone on speaker so anyone can hear and he should answer the call when he knows it is her. This is just another thing the jerk likes to do..
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #11

    Oct 30, 2009, 01:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpin22 View Post
    when we went to court I had 7 pages of incidents. Her lawyer said we aren't here to put your ex down, we are here to get the boys back. So, shouldn't the lawyer want to use this against him?????????? Sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel.
    The lawyer is right, you aren't there to put the ex down. But the lawyer is also wrong, because you ARE there to show that he has consistently (and maliciously) violated the court order.

    I would soft pedal trying to get the kids back for now. I would concentrate on showing the court that he is consistently interfering with the mother's court ordered time with the kids. I would push for a contempt of court citation. At some point the judge will see the systematic attempts to alienate the children from the mother and will be more amenable to a change of custody.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #12

    Oct 30, 2009, 06:25 AM

    My feeling is that if you have 7 pages of transgressions many of them are petty and the Courts have little tolerance.

    In my area it's all about proof - what type of proof did you present (or attempt to present)?
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Oct 31, 2009, 10:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    The lawyer is right, you aren't there to put the ex down. But the lawyer is also wrong, because you ARE there to show that he has consistently (and maliciously) violated the court order.

    I would soft pedal trying to get the kids back for now. I would concentrate on showing the court that he is consistently interfering with the mother's court ordered time with the kids. I would push for a contempt of court citation. At some point the judge will see the systematic attempts to alienate the children from the mother and will be more amenable to a change of custody.
    First of all, thanks for your advice and help. Secondly how do I spread the "reputation"?
    With this contempt of court do we need to hire a lawyer again? They told her before she would have to wait a year, and it's been over that. They didn't tell her to get a lawyer. We had 7 pages of things that had happened to the boys over a 2 year period; however, no one wanted to see them. No one would listen.
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Oct 31, 2009, 10:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    My feeling is that if you have 7 pages of transgressions many of them are petty and the Courts have little tolerance.

    In my area it's all about proof - what type of proof did you present (or attempt to present)?
    Thanks Judy for all the good advice. As I asked Scott how do I spread "reputation'? I am not a wizard at this, I truly appreciate all the help I have been given.
    The proof came mainly from the 2 boys, and the rest from friends. Some things we were told by the boys were: About their dad putting the calls on speaker making them not wanting to talk, he told them their mom was a druggie and that she didn't love them anymore, told them not to speak to us out in public when they are with him, turning the power switch on and off outside leaving them in the dark and scared, left them in his truck behind a bar, while he went in to pick up his girlfriend, the boys ran into an electric fence because no one was outside watching them, the youngest got sick later, the oldest boy fell and broke his arm, but wasn't taken to the doctor until the next afternoon. Almost 24 hours later. There's more believe me. Shoud this have been brought to anyone's attention??
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #15

    Nov 1, 2009, 04:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpin22 View Post
    First of all, thanks for your advice and help. Secondly how do I spread the "reputation" ?? .
    By rating other responders.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
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    #16

    Nov 1, 2009, 07:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jumpin22 View Post
    Thanks Judy for all the good advice. As I asked Scott how do I spread "reputation'? I am not a wizard at this, I truly appreciate all the help I have been given.
    The proof came mainly from the 2 boys, and the rest from friends. Some things we were told by the boys were: About their dad putting the calls on speaker making them not wanting to talk, he told them their mom was a druggie and that she didn't love them anymore, told them not to speak to us out in public when they are with him, turning the power switch on and off outside leaving them in the dark and scared, left them in his truck behind a bar, while he went in to pick up his girlfriend, the boys ran into an electric fence because no one was outside watching them, the youngest got sick later, the oldest boy fell and broke his arm, but wasn't taken to the doctor until the next afternoon. Almost 24 hours later. There's more believe me. Shoud this have been brought to anyone's attention???
    If you really think that all your evidence isn't being heard then when you go to court ask for a parental evaluation if it's a custody hearing. A contempt hearing isn't about 7 pages of complaints. Its about being in contempt and that's the focus so anything outside of that isn't going to be heard. Any time your facing a court with charges etc you should have a lawyer at your side. Some things are straightforward but many are not. Such as your 7 pages of complaints. It sounds like most of it is not relevant to the contempt hearing. Also when your looking into things you have to remember how your looking at them. What you believe is a powerful accusation can be turned away with simple explinations. You must be very careful with that.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #17

    Nov 1, 2009, 09:14 AM

    Right, absolutely agree - you have to walk the line between being petty (or appearing to be petty) and being concerned - and you MUST have proof. I think the rule of thumb is if you think something bad could happen, you are aware of the situation and do nothing, you have to live with that for the rest of your life, then you must report it.

    As far as rating - go to every response which was helpful. At the bottom of that response are two boxes - one sort of orange and one blue. If you use your mouse and click on the "Rate this answer" orange box you will see agree or disagree. If you click the "agree" then you can post a comment.

    Just having you say thank you the way you did is gratifying to everyone who has attempted to help you.

    Keep us informed -
    jumpin22's Avatar
    jumpin22 Posts: 18, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Nov 1, 2009, 10:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    Right, absolutely agree - you have to walk the line between being petty (or appearing to be petty) and being concerned - and you MUST have proof. I think the rule of thumb is if you think something bad could happen, you are aware of the situation and do nothing, you have to live with that for the rest of your life, then you must report it.

    As far as rating - go to each and every response which was helpful. At the bottom of that response are two boxes - one sort of orange and one blue. If you use your mouse and click on the "Rate this answer" orange box you will see agree or disagree. If you click the "agree" then you can post a comment.

    Just having you say thank you the way you did is gratifying to everyone who has attempted to help you.

    Keep us informed -
    Once again, everyone has given excellent advice. The concerns that I posted I surely thought would be of great value in this case. But after reading I see what you mean. Being grandma you want to know in your mind and in your heart that nothing bad is happening. That is why I tried to keep track of things going on. But the contempt is totatlly different and I will look into the parental evaluation. Once again, I thank all who responded to my question. God bless each an every one of you. I will keep everyone in formed . Thanks

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