[Gifted1]

NEW INFO. My sister took the ashes of my father and disposed of them with a perfect stranger and will not tell anyone where they are.. it has been ten years and she still won't tell anyone. None of my siblings seem to be mad at her for this but me. Am I wrong for being mad? And how do I deal with this? How do you describe a person who does something like this?
I want to make it clear that I'm over the death but I would like to maybe visit the area where his ashes were scattered. I may want to even take my daughter there. How could I do this when she won't tell me where they are . I don't know how to get over the anger I have over the action she took that day. She has never appologized for it either. And she knew I wanted ot be there because I had told her so. I have married a man who is native and they tend to have strong connections to the past.. what if my daughter happens to feel this way . I would like the option of letting her visit the area to pray. I would also like to go there and pray for him. The person she took there was a stranger to all of the siblings as well as my father. She parted from him shortly after she did this as well. I asked her why she did this to us and she said for closure. Well didn't she think that maybe we needed closure as well. Grieving is different for EVERYONE! We all need to do what we need to do and she took that away from all of us.
If feels to me like no one understands what I'm trying to say. Its not the death I'm mad about it's the action she took that day the thought less action she took and to continue to keep the where abouts a secret

[RubyPitbull]

Notation: OP has changed original question. RP response given here and below, was to original, which was short with very little info given.

It is very easy for us here on this forum to just sit here and judge someone and describe that person as a bit strange or selfish, which I suspect is the answer that you want to hear.

Gifted, I don't know the circumstances surrounding what caused her to do this so it is difficult for me to abruptly answer your question and judge her in this manner.

I think the thing that is bothering you the most is that your other siblings seem to have passed their grieving stage, aren't holding any grudges against your sister, and you have not been able to find closure. I could be wrong, but this isn't an easy question that you have posed here, and I am trying to put myself in your shoes to figure out why you are so angry and try to help you deal with that anger in a constructive way. The bottom line is that it has been 10 years and she is refusing to give answers. So, you need to try and think this through to help give you some peace of mind because you deserve it.

I choose to believe that a person's body after they die is just an empty shell. Knowing where they are buried or their ashes are scattered doesn't help me to grieve any less. I, for one, do not like the idea of having to be tied down to the tradition of visiting someone's grave. Personally, it is too heavy a commitment for me to visit on a regular basis and then I start to feel guilty if I don't.

I feel the best way to feel close to someone that has died is to think about them and talk to them as if they are standing next to me. Or, I pick a spot outside that I really like. A special tree in a park nearby and make that my mourning place. It is a lot more pleasant for me to visit someone that I loved than going to a cemetery. But, that is me.

I wish I could magically have an answer to your question that would give you some comfort. This is the best that I can do. Maybe someone else on this forum will have some additional thoughts and advice. Please be patient. You will probably receive e-mails on this over the course of the next few days.

[RubyPitbull]

Gifted, you just said that you find your sister's act to be "unbelievably selfish". You never said that in your posting yet, I knew that is exactly what you were thinking and wanted me to say. So, are you looking for us to give you confirmation of your feelings by answering yes, she is unbelievably selfish? I can do that if you would like. But, I need to stress again, that since I don't know why she did this, it is hard for me to say that.

You may disagree with me and that is your option. However, when we can't get past something that we believe is an affront to us, such as what your sister did to you, there is usually something deeper going on.

If a stranger tells me that they don't like something I have said or done, I say okay, and pretty much take it with a grain of salt. It doesn't bother me. But, if a sibling or close friend tells me that, I want to know why and I don't dismiss it so easily. It bothers me.

I do believe that you have not been able to have closure and your anger is a form of grieving for your father. I have been around for a while and have seen and experienced a lot which is why I wrote what I did. Please understand that this is nothing personal and I am trying to figure out how to help you get over your anger with your sister, not just agree with you. If I agree with you, how is that going to help you? Will it make you less angry at your sister? Will you go back to your siblings and tell them that other people agree with you? Will that fact really change their minds? I am not trying to argue with you but get you to think in another direction.

But, as I said, other people will stop by and give their opinions. They may disagree with me and agree with you.

Just be patient and see what other's thoughts are on this.

[RubyPitbull]

By the way, I was concentrating on this part of your post

you wrote:am i wrong for being mad? and how do i deal with this?

This is what I am attempting to do. Help you deal with this. Please focus on that and give me your thoughts on what I am saying to give me a little more insight on how and what you have been doing to deal with this on your own.

[valinors_sorrow]

Granted, she was wrong to do that. But without more details about the anger or a better explanation of your relationship with your sister, it seems at first glance like something you might have been able to let go -- just as your siblings did. Is there more to this than what we're seeing? Do you understand why and how they managed to let it go? I ask this sincerely.

[RubyPitbull]

I probably should have asked some additional questions.

Was the relationship between your sister and your father, your siblings and your father, and you and your father, different in any way?

Did your sister have more of a relationship or bond with him?

Who is the stranger that you are referring to?

Did this person have a relationship at all with your father?

Did your father possibly specify in his will a specific wish for her to scatter his ashes without any one else's knowledge?

The answers to my questions and the person's who posted above me, might help us to understand and possibly come to the conclusion that maybe you are right, and we might be able to figure out a way to help you deal with this as you asked.

[Gifted1]

I am over the death of my father. That is not the problem here but I am still angry over what my sister did an di can't say whether my brothers are mad at her for what she did or not. The stranger that she took there was just some guy she had met and shortly after she did this she parted ways with him. My father did not request that she do what she did. At the time it was clear to her that I wanted to be there because I told her so. We have never had a terrible relationship in fact we do get along even to this day.. I don't think she knows that I am angry with her still. She is very aloof and hard to get close to at the best of times. I just find it shocking that I am the only one who sees how wrong this was. I might want to take my daughter there one day (I married a man who is native and they tend to have a strong connection to the past and ancestors etc.. If my daughter is to feel the same way as my husband I would like her to have the option of visiting the area. ) only my sister to this day will not tell me where she scattered them. I just don t understand why she has the rights to know this but no one else does. We have a right as well. I don't know how to get over the anger I have towards that action she took.

[valinors_sorrow]

You are stuck because it seems you have never really told her. Why not tell her in a letter? Write it out, sleep on it, reread it in the morning and if necessary repeat that process until you are satisfied enough to send it.

Ask for what you need in clear language. Impress her with how important it is to you and why. Express everything, including how much you value your relationship with her and how this interferes with that. Try not to let the anger dominate but rather the hurt and sadness -- people respond better to that, less defensive.

Perhaps once she really understands how important this is to you, she will relent and let you in on it. And if not, you know you did your best and she isn't up to the task of being a kind sister. We can help then with that too.

What do you think of this idea?

What she did was selfish and wrong but don't put language like that in your letter, okay? Its not very productive. Put your need to have closure and how it will take knowing this information instead.

[RubyPitbull]

Gifted, I am glad you came back and explained this further! This does paint a clearer picture.

I like what Valinors is saying here. Sounds like a productive plan.

Something else kind of came to mind reading your post. It may sound strange but, do you think it is at all possible that she never really scattered the ashes at all and might have put them in an urn she is keeping?

[Gifted1]

No I never thougt of that all I ever did was ask her why she did that and all she said to me was that she wanted closure which tells me that she understands what she took from the rest of us. I think I might be mad at more as well I feel like she has always been very selfish and was never there for me and I suppose this was just the biggest act of selfishness that she did. The older I get the more I feel like she took something important from me. Your Q about whether she really did scatter them is kind of a weird one to me. I can't forsee where she would be hiding ashes. I suppose I want an answer about what kind of person she is as well. After all she is my family and I am genuinly curious about what it takes for a person to commit such an act. After all she didn't have it out for us or anything I think she just doesn't care or simply doesn't think of others
She seems like a good mother to me, but she seems to care less about our family, and her husband seems to dislike me very much and for no reason at all. I'm just confused by selfishness and it angers me because I love my family they are everything to me my brothers and I are very close. She seems like an outcast at times

[RubyPitbull]

Gifted 1. Sometimes we have to recognize that we have made a mistake. I have made one here. I am truly sorry. I should never have answered this posting. I do not feel I have the qualifications to help you. I am going to bow out as gracefully as I can and hope that Valinors Sorrows or someone else on this site can give you some constructive advice that will help you.

I truly wish you the best of luck and I am so sorry that this is something I cannot help you with.

[valinors_sorrow]

As hard as this is to see, sometimes we "don't get it" because we don't see the whole picture, mostly because we don't want to, and that's mostly because we are afraid we will see some bad part of ourselves and not be able to cope with that.

It sounds like your sister isn't a very good family member at all and you have yet to fully accept that. If you accepted that, then her poor actions would not be such a surprise to you -- you'd know to expect that from her.

I come from a family that is like that. I understand they are making mistakes. And they are making their mistakes in the same way I used to make mine -- we didn't realize we were making them or even how selfish we were in our thinking that helped us to make mistakes. Since then, I have screwed up my nerve to look at myself --its not as bad as I thought it would be! LOL I learned about myself, corrected many of those mistakes, but most especially the selfish thinking . Now I make (hopefully LOL) less and less mistakes and with a totally different kind of awareness.

However my family is not. They are stuck in that selfish, self-centered thinking that they use to justify anything they do - good or bad -- in their minds. They are simply too afraid to look at self. I makes me sad for them and there is nothing I can do about it. I see you in very much the same position with your sister. You can't do anything about her other than accept that she is not a very good sister.

I hope that helps you to understand better.

[KaishaJayne]

You're not wrong in feeling angry about what she did, and it would be polite if she did tell you where the ashes were, after all, he was your father as well. I agree, people do grieve differently and their grieving shouldn't be taken away by anyone else. So that goes for you, her, and everyone else involved. Did she do it for any other reasons? Explain to her why it makes you feel this way, explain why you want/need to know. There are other people involved, not just her. Explain how you want to take your daughter there, how SHE needs to know as well. Sorry I haven't helped much