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susang1972 · Mar 5, 2008, 03:44 PM

My father passed away this past week. He was a wealthy man. There are 6 children in total. 3 from his first wife, my brother (William aka:Buck) and myself (which he adopted when I was a baby) and my younger brother, and his wife of 4 years. We buried him on Saturday and Monday the 2nd oldest (Brian/Executor) called me wanting me to sign waivers of annual accounting and inventory. Then when I request the will they send me this bogus hand written crap from 2000! My father was a physician. He was educated, that he would leave only a handwritten will is absurd. What can I do? I haven't signed the papers yet.

twinkiedooter · Mar 5, 2008, 03:56 PM

Don't sign anything without seeing the original will. Do you know if your father had an attorney handling his affairs? If so, that attorney probably had a will drawn up for your father. Try calling the attorney if you know there was one your dad used.

susang1972 · Mar 5, 2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by susang1972

My father passed away this past week. He was a wealthy man. There are 6 children in total. 3 from his first wife, my brother (William aka:Buck) and myself (which he adopted when I was a baby) and my younger brother, and his wife of 4 years. We buried him on Saturday and Monday the 2nd oldest (Brian/Executor) called me wanting me to sign waivers of annual accounting and inventory. Then when I request the will they send me this bogus hand written crap from 2000!! My father was a physician. He was educated, that he would leave only a handwritten will is absurd. What can I do? I haven't signed the papers yet.

I called my mother (which I hate) but she said when they were married he had one with a specific attorney but that was like 20 years ago. Unless they can produce one that is formal after that does that one stay in effect? I haven't called him yet, I was trying to get unpissed so I don't over-react. This is all happening today. I only got to see the "will" this morning.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 5, 2008, 04:53 PM

There are many issues, first depending on the state, even a written will if it does not meet state laws can be challenged. What you need to do is get a copy of the will, and have a probate attorney review it. Also contact the attorney he had used. Also check with business partner as to any other attorneys used lately.

JudyKayTee · Mar 6, 2008, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by susang1972

My father passed away this past week. He was a wealthy man. There are 6 children in total. 3 from his first wife, my brother (William aka:Buck) and myself (which he adopted when I was a baby) and my younger brother, and his wife of 4 years. We buried him on Saturday and Monday the 2nd oldest (Brian/Executor) called me wanting me to sign waivers of annual accounting and inventory. Then when I request the will they send me this bogus hand written crap from 2000!! My father was a physician. He was educated, that he would leave only a handwritten will is absurd. What can I do? I haven't signed the papers yet.

I don't know what State you are in but in many States handwritten Wills are not legal Wills unless there are extreme circumstances, very very difficult to probate. When this handwritten Will is admitted to probate they will launch a search for other Wills.

All else aside this is very, very early for anyone to be handing anyone papers. I doubt anyone has had time to accumulate date of death values at this point.

The Estate should be probated; an Attorney (if it's a large estate) should be handling it; your brother may think he's the Executor and he is on paper, possibly, but I don't see any way he's been appointed in one week.

I wouldn't sign anything without speaking to an Attorney anyway.

susang1972 · Mar 6, 2008, 12:05 PM

I have tried to call the old attorney but he has passed many years ago and I can't seem to find who took over his cases. I do have a copy of this handwritten thing, he and his wife weren't married back then, I had one less child, hadn't graduated from college yet. I mean there are a dozen things different from then until now. I have been looking up this on the computer and it seems to me that he remarried which nullifies the handwritten will even in the small chance it was legal when it was written (which with no wittnesses it isn't in the state of Tennessee). I think they just didn't like the fact of the will that was legal so they dug out an old handwritten draft and are trying to pass it off as legal.

My dad wasn't even dead 3 days and they were already starting this. Is there any idea how long this can possibly take?

ScottGem · Mar 6, 2008, 12:12 PM

If its contested, it could take years. And I think you have reasonable grounds to contest the handwritten will. But as others have noted, it seems ridiculous to start getting papers signed so soon. How big a town did you father live in? Maybe there aren't that many lawyers and one will come forward.

susang1972 · Mar 6, 2008, 08:42 PM

Nashville, TN. We are a huge place. I have tried to contact his atty that my mother knew of last and he has passed away. I have heard that his son took over his practice so I am going to try and contact him to see if possibly he has a copy of it but that would be probably 30 years old. I know he has gotten an updated one recently. He has been sick for many years (emphysema). He knew it was coming, and that he wouldn't have a formal will draw up is just so not him. I don't think this was ever meant to be the real will. It kind of looks like he was doing rough drafts and they went with the one they liked best. I wish I could prove it.

Thank you for all of your help!

JudyKayTee · Mar 7, 2008, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by susang1972

I have tried to call the old attorney but he has passed many years ago and I can't seem to find who took over his cases. I do have a copy of this handwritten thing, he and his wife weren't married back then, I had one less child, hadn't graduated from college yet. I mean there are a dozen things different from then until now. I have been looking up this on the computer and it seems to me that he remarried which nullifies the handwritten will even in the small chance it was legal when it was written (which with no wittnesses it isn't in the state of Tennessee). I think they just didn't like the fact of the will that was legal so they dug out an old handwritten draft and are trying to pass it off as legal.

My dad wasn't even dead 3 days and they were already starting this. Is there any idea how long this can possibly take?

Changed circumstances do not void a Will - the only possible problem can be if provisions are made for, say, 2 children and then a third child is born.

If the handwritten Will you have been given has no witnesses it's not a legal Will anyway and the estate would be divided by Statute.

Obviously marriage changes things because the wife is entitled to a percentage but the other Will provisions remain the same, perhaps reduced by what the wife is entitled to take, but otherwise the same. Also joint property suddenly comes outside the Will.

I don't know (obviously) anything about your stepmother but I would think your father would have protected her - and she would have wanted to be protected.

(I am speaking only for NYS and, believe it or not, I am in the middle of a Will contest on very similar grounds - changed circumstances.)

susang1972 · Mar 13, 2008, 08:24 AM

Well, my adoption papers state specifically that I am to inherit from any and all adoptive relationships from the date the adoption papers were signed. This is not standard adoption verbiage. I believe that my adoption papers trump the will anyway since they spell out my inheritance. They will have to figure out what he had accumulated from the date of the adoption to the date of his death and that would be the amount that would be calculated as my inheritance percentage. His entire family has died since then and in essence he was left with everything. So, I think my best option now is to hire an attorney to contest the will.

Thank you all for your help. I will let you know how it turns out.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 13, 2008, 08:30 AM

Again I don't know which will trump over which trumps what, but that is why you hire an attorney and it fights out in probate court, it can take months and even years depending on the case.

And of course if you win big, I love to have rich friends,

JudyKayTee · Mar 13, 2008, 08:53 AM

[QUOTE=susang1972]Well, my adoption papers state specifically that I am to inherit from any and all adoptive relationships from the date the adoption papers were signed. This is not standard adoption verbiage. I believe that my adoption papers trump the will anyway since they spell out my inheritance. They will have to figure out what he had accumulated from the date of the adoption to the date of his death and that would be the amount that would be calculated as my inheritance percentage. His entire family has died since then and in essence he was left with everything. So, I think my best option now is to hire an attorney to contest the will.

I think this is incorrect - I have never heard of inheritance being calculated as wealth accumulated since an adoption or, for that matter, a birth. You are either entitled to inherit or not. I don't know what State you are in and maybe this is different State to State but certainly not in NY. Under this theory of law older children would inherit more than younger children by virtue of having been "around" longer.

In some States children are not entitled to inherit at all. You can always contest a Will - it's time consuming and expensive but you might "win" or, at best, the heirs often pay just to have those contesting the Will be quiet and go away because of the time and expense involved. Are you in a State where children are entitled to inherit if there is a living widow(er)?

You are planning to contest the Will so I would say it has been admitted to Probate and you are talking about the handwritten Will?

susang1972 · Mar 13, 2008, 12:17 PM

My adoption papers are not like the normal ones. The attorney I have since spoken to has never in her 25+ years practicing seen them spelled out with such detail. It specifically states that I am to inherit from all adopted family members. It goes so far as to state my aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. It has 3 paragraphs of this. She also seems to think the same thing that they will offer me a settlement to not contest it further as there is another birth child that is left only $10 and if I contest the will and win, which is most likely the case, he will also inherit which they don't want to happen at all. So, I think I am in a good position, I will update as events occur.

Thank you for all of your feedback, it really helps to know there are others out there with similar situations.

JudyKayTee · Mar 13, 2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by susang1972

Well, my adoption papers state specifically that I am to inherit from any and all adoptive relationships from the date the adoption papers were signed. This is not standard adoption verbiage. I believe that my adoption papers trump the will anyway since they spell out my inheritance. They will have to figure out what he had accumulated from the date of the adoption to the date of his death and that would be the amount that would be calculated as my inheritance percentage. His entire family has died since then and in essence he was left with everything. So, I think my best option now is to hire an attorney to contest the will.

Thank you all for your help. I will let you know how it turns out.

I'll be interested in the outcome - feel free to message privately if that is more comfortable for you.

I can only speak for NYS but "here" NOTHING trumps the Will, no matter what. I also can't imagine how anyone would/could determine how much the estate gained or lost since the date of your adoption - that process could be endless.

Very interested in knowing how this turned out -

And if it's not too personal, who was the adoption written that way? I've never seen any wording even close to that. Would seem if your father was savvy enough to use special phrasing in an adoption he would have written a Will - wonder if one is floating around someplace - ?

susang1972 · Apr 2, 2008, 05:56 PM

Ok, so tomorrow is the hearing to probate the 'will'. I went to my attorney today. She fairly confident that I can contest the will and have a huge chance in winning. There are several reasons, he called me and my brother 'step-children' and we are adopted. Which looks like either he wasn't in his right mind or he was being cooerced into writing this, the emails that they have sent me telling me I am causing them to not being able to pay their bills, that they would cut me a check and give me more on 04/05/08 if I sign, telling me I am only making it harder on myself, among other things they have said. The fact that we have a judge that looks for any reason to throw out a holographic will because he feels they are usually fraudulent. She said she normally gives clients a 20-30% chance but considering ALL the circumstanes, and there are personal circumstances I don't want to put out here, she thinks we have about 60-75% chance of winning.

Thank you and I will update again soon!

susang1972 · Apr 2, 2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I'll be interested in the outcome - feel free to message privately if that is more comfortable for you.

I can only speak for NYS but "here" NOTHING trumps the Will, no matter what. I also can't imagine how anyone would/could determine how much the estate gained or lost since the date of your adoption - that process could be endless.

Very interested in knowing how this turned out -

And if it's not too personal, who was the adoption written that way? I've never seen any wording even close to that. Would seem if your father was savvy enough to use special phrasing in an adoption he would have written a Will - wonder if one is floating around someplace - ?

My grandfather made him write it that way. I can only assume he figured this would happen so he tried to make sure it didn't. He was the one who made him adopt me in the first place. He believed that if he was going to play house with my mom he needed to make it right by us kids.

froggy7 · Apr 2, 2008, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by susang1972

My adoption papers are not like the normal ones. The attorney I have since spoken to has never in her 25+ years practicing seen them spelled out with such detail. It specifically states that I am to inherit from all adopted family members. It goes so far as to state my aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. It has 3 paragraphs of this.

I wouldn't think that would be legal. I can see saying that you would be entitled to the same inheritance as any naturally-born child of your father. But, if I were your aunt and didn't want to leave your dad any of my money, I don't think he could force me to leave it to you, which is what "I am to inherit from all adopted family members" says. It's your aunt's money to dispense as she wishes.

However, it's possible that you are paraphrasing legalese, in which case the wording may not be as sweeping.

JudyKayTee · Apr 3, 2008, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by froggy7

I wouldn't think that would be legal. I can see saying that you would be entitled to the same inheritance as any naturally-born child of your father. But, if I were your aunt and didn't want to leave your dad any of my money, I don't think he could force me to leave it to you, which is what "I am to inherit from all adopted family members" says. It's your aunt's money to dispense as she wishes.

However, it's possible that you are paraphrasing legalese, in which case the wording may not be as sweeping.

Got to agree with "Froggy" here - no one can force anyone else to name a third party the beneficiary of an Estate. I have never heard anything even close to this, not even in NYS where I've heard some weird ones.

The strangest one I've heard - and it was a prolonged Court battle which pretty much burned up an Estate - was a Will which left everything but a few specific bequests to "My Wife" - and believe it or not the Attorney didn't follow this up with a name. Well, the guy divorced "My Wife," remarried, had a second wife - and died. Never changed his Will believing, for whatever reason, that "My Wife" meant his wife at the time. Both the current and the X saw it different, long Court battle, ate up the estate pretty much - and the second wife received her legal portion under the law and everything else went to wife number 1. I would have sued the Attorney who wrote the Will but nobody ever did.

So strange things can happen.

I'm blood but I can't force my Aunt to name me as a beneficiary in her Will or enter into an agreement with her or anyone else that she WILL name me as a beneficiary.

Curious to see how this plays out.