 |
|
|
 |
Junior Member
|
|
Dec 3, 2007, 08:22 PM
|
|
Built in dishwasher
Does the NEC allow a built in dishwasher to be connected to existing small appliance circuits and which section of the NEC covers this situation
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Dec 3, 2007, 09:39 PM
|
|
Sure. Breaker and wiring need to handle the rating of the dishwasher. There are some 30 Amp/ 240 volts Dishwashers for homes, they would need own circuit.
|
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Dec 3, 2007, 10:45 PM
|
|
Sorry, but I disagree! I say no, based on NEC 210.52(B)(2)
In addition it may violate 110.3(B)
|
|
 |
Junior Member
|
|
Dec 4, 2007, 08:11 AM
|
|
Washington... I think there is some room for interpretation by the AHJ. Take a look at 210.52(B)(5). I believe that would allow the use of a receptacle on one of the two required circuits. In my own home, the disposal and dishwasher are on a dedicated circuit. However, on my son's home, they are part of one of the two dedicated circuits. Different AHJ's. Personally, I would want them on their own circuit, but if that's not practical at this point, I would make a case to the AHJ and see what they have to say about it. They are after all, the final authority in this decision.
|
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Dec 4, 2007, 03:10 PM
|
|
 Originally Posted by Cobraguy
Washington...I think there is some room for interpretation by the AHJ. Take a look at 210.52(B)(5). I believe that would allow the use of a receptacle on one of the two required circuits. In my own home, the disposal and dishwasher are on a dedicated circuit. However, on my son's home, they are part of one of the two dedicated circuits. Different AHJ's. Personally, I would want them on their own circuit, but if that's not practical at this point, I would make a case to the AHJ and see what they have to say about it. They are after all, the final authority in this decision.
There is no 210.52(B)(5)
-Putting the disposal and diswasher on the same circuit has nothing to do with the kitchens 2 small appliance circuits.
-It may be done that way in your son's home, but that doesn't make it right by today's code.
-Now, if the AHJ wants to allow a person to install against NEC 210.52 (B)(2), then so be it. I do not see room for interpretation on this article. Note: The article says: shall have no other outlets
-Also note NEC 110.3(B)
-Thanks for the feed back, will await your comment... :)
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 03:49 AM
|
|
A dishwasher is a fixed or stationary appliance, and falls under Article 422-Appliances, and requires a separate circuit, and cannot be connected to the two "small appliance" receptacle circuits required in a kitchen.
|
|
 |
Junior Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 05:59 AM
|
|
Washington... my apologies. It's 210.52(C)(5)! Here's what it says...
(5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall
be located above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above,
the countertop. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessible
by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages,
or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered
as these required outlets. Exception: To comply with the conditions specified in (a) or
(b), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not
more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles
mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception
shall not be located where the countertop extends
more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.
(a) Construction for the physically impaired.
(b) On island and peninsular countertops where the countertop
is flat across its entire surface (no backsplashes,
dividers, etc.) and there are no means to mount a receptacle
within 500 mm (20 in.) above the countertop, such
as an overhead cabinet.
I believe this leaves room for interpretation by an AHJ.
Tk... I don't see anywhere in 422 where it addresses a dedicated circuit for the dishwasher. I'm not trying to be a hard a** here... I am just trying to have an educating discussion. (my education!) One thing I've discovered about NEC and AHJ's, is that it's far from being set in stone. Much is left to individual interpretation.
|
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 09:00 AM
|
|
Cobraguy,
You are reading it wrong. Look at Article 210.52(C)5 again. In specific: (5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall
be located above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above,
the countertop.
Then re-read 210.52(B)2
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 09:11 AM
|
|
Just to be clear, poster did not say it was on one of the 2 required. Personally, I put D/W and disposal on its own circuit. Some Kitchen's, I have each receptacle on own circuit for those cooking Fools, Who have everything Going. Is actually nice. They enjoy not having to be as careful to overloading.
|
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 09:18 AM
|
|
 Originally Posted by ViVid
OP said: does the NEC allow a built in dishwasher to be connected to existing small appliance circuits and which section of the NEC covers this situation
Just to be clear, poster did not say it was on one of the 2 required.
True, but it was asked, "was it allowed to be."
Cobra,
Also note 110.3
It is not rare to see a Manufacture asking for a dedicated circuit to their appliance.
PS: I love discussion in this fashion! Love it! It helps people think--in the process they are learning!
|
|
 |
Uber Member
|
|
Dec 5, 2007, 01:32 PM
|
|
Cobra, how would interpret a permanently installed dishwasher?
I interpret a DW as an appliance.
I doubt you will find any AHJ that would allow a DW on one of the "Small Appliance" circuits, as they are dedicated and intended for use by coffee pots, toasters, frying pans, and any other counter type small appliance.
And since the DW is fixed and stationary, it falls under Art 422.
And in addition to that, as Washington mentions, per manufacturers instructions.
As to reinforce Washington point, Sec 210.52 falls under sub article 3 (III)-Required Outlets.
Before trying to interpret any section, one must note the heading it is under.
A DW is not a required outlet.
So let's end this question for Vivid, to answer his question, no a dishwasher cannot be connected to one of the required "Small Appliance" circuits, and follow the manufacturers instructions.
I suspect that is what he/she found, and is trying to get around it.
If anyone would like a code discussion on a particular topic, lets get in the habit of starting another question, and not add discussion posts to a person's question.
|
|
Question Tools |
Search this Question |
|
|
Add your answer here.
Check out some similar questions!
Installing built-in Microwave over built-in walloven
[ 5 Answers ]
We purchased a Jenn Air built-in microwave and want to install it right above the built-in Jenn Air wall oven (so it looks like one unit, or close to that) How much space is recommended between the 2 pcs? The installation instructions are pathetic and do not say. We tired calling them and of...
Built my own telescope
[ 1 Answers ]
What is the best book out that gives you good details on how to build your own telescope?
Kenmore Built-in 363 Dishwasher with Standing Water
[ 1 Answers ]
Hi,
We have a Kenmore 363 Built-in Dishwasher. The dishwasher is not draining all of the way - there is a puddle of standing water (at least a cup) under the cover inlet. We only use the dishwasher once a week or so, and the standing water is growing into something rather unpleasant. We...
Built too much muscle!?
[ 3 Answers ]
I am 18 and 9 months ago, I quit smoking, started eating healthier, and started going to the gym. I was doing cardio and weights, but I guess I was using too much weight on my legs and butt because they got bigger instead of smaller!! How can I get my thighs and hips and butt smaller without...
View more questions
Search
|