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    Kmcgar's Avatar
    Kmcgar Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Nov 20, 2007, 04:08 PM
    Phone Jack (Jury Rigging)
    Ok, I have an epic tale to tell. I moved into my house in 2005. In my office I had a dual output phone jack installed. One side was DSL the other was for the phone.

    Long story short, things began to sloooow down on the DSL line. Our good pals at Verizon came out and "fixed" the problem. So, my DSL works great but now I have no phone service coming out of the "phone side" of the dual jack.

    I called Verizon and after 35 transfers and a month waiting, I found out that the tech disconnected the "phone side" to improve the DSL side. I told the Verizon tech that I wanted phone AND DSL coming from the jack. HE told me that was not possible and went on to describe some techy mumbo jumbo.

    The Verizon tech told me that I couldn't have the phone/dsl coming out of the same jack but I could rig the wiring to effectuate a phone/DSL setup. He told me to purchase a standard male/female phone extension cord and to wire it to the wires that the original Verizon tech disconnected. He explained that this configuration would effectuate an "end around" the original problem.

    Great, got the extension cord and cut off the male end to expose Red, Black, Green and Yellow wires. When I opened up the jack in question, I saw the following wires:

    Green/Green&White (twisted)
    Blue/Blue&White (twisted)
    Brown/White (twisted) (this could also be a brownish red)

    All of the above wires are not connected to anything. There are Orange/Orange& White wires connected to the DSL outlet

    My questions is where do I connect the Red, Black, Green and Yellow wires?

    Help!
    Rover88's Avatar
    Rover88 Posts: 68, Reputation: 14
    Junior Member
     
    #2

    Nov 20, 2007, 05:22 PM
    This sounds like a Verizon move. First, you need to understand a little about how DSL works: If a line is "qualified" for DSL, the digital signal (DSL) rides on a regular copper voice pair. Also, the DSL has to have a number, so they generally tag the DSL service onto your regular phone service. In some areas things have changed a little bit: it used to be that you HAD to have a filter on the line to separate the digital signal from the analog (voice) side. In some areas now you don't have to have a filter and can just use a regular 1-to-2 splitter.

    In this case, it may be trial-and-error, because we don't know what the Verizon tech disconnected. On the cable you bought, you'll use ONLY the red and green. These feed the center two pins. I'd try them on the orange pair the DSL is using, just to see. If you get voice, fine; if not, try the other pairs in sequence--I'd start with blue pair, as this is usually the pair used.

    If you have voice on the orange pair, good. If it has a squeal to it, you could buy a DSL filter, which should eliminate the squeal.

    Now the best part: If Verizon did the original DSL/voice install, and are your service provider, since they screwed it up, they need to fix it. If they give you a run-around, warn them that you'll go to your state's Public Utilities Commission--that usually gets their attention.

    By the way, I am a professional low-voltage cabler/phone guy---I go through this a lot.

    Come back if you have any questions or problems.

    Bill
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #3

    Nov 20, 2007, 05:41 PM
    What is a dual output phone jack?

    1. Two lines (Phone, DSL) in same jack (line 1, line 2)
    2. Two separate lines (DSL, Phone) connected to two jacks as (Line 1, Line 1)

    Line 1 refers to the center pins, Line 2 refers to the outer pins.

    Where is the filter/splitter?

    A good way of doing what you need to accomplish is to put the DSL splitter in the NID outside the house. That cable, best if it's CAT 5. The DSL side can go to one jack and the phone side to the other jack.

    The second scenareo, is that the DSL side becomes LINE 2 and the telephone side becomes LINE 1 on a single jack. You would then use a Line 1, Line 2, Line 1+2 adapter to split the lines. One to the modem. One to the telephone.

    Verizon might install a splitter in the NID outside the house for free. Your responsible for inside wiring.

    If your using DSL without filters on the phone side, you will have horrible DSL speeds particularly when your on the phone and you'll have noise on the telephone side when the modem is on.
    donf's Avatar
    donf Posts: 5,678, Reputation: 582
    Printers & Electronics Expert
     
    #4

    Nov 20, 2007, 06:19 PM
    Okay,

    BTW I'm sure you meant "Jerry Rigging or Gerry Rigging" Jury Rigging is a felony and it is punnishable under State and Federal law. :) The phone companies around the US generally stick to the Universal Wiring.

    In the days of Fred Flintstone, Green and Red were referred to as Tip and Ring. Yellow was the Bell circuit and Black was Ground. Now a days the wires are grouped in pairs (1) Red/Green and (2) Yellow/Black. Each pair can and support one phone, for voice and data. Qualifying the line is a Central Office process along with a tech visit at the residence .

    For example, I have two lines installed at my residence. One is the family phone line and the other is for the DSL and Fax machine and voice. Line 1 is an unfiltered line that only rings within the residence. Line 2 is set up only in my office. I have one RJ-11 receptacle, that feeds a "One In"/"Two Out" RJ-11 splitter. One side of the splitter feeds the DSL modem and the other, with filter feeds the Fax and Phone.

    As to Verizon, that's the carrier I have. And your description of their support is "Spot On"
    That is exactly what I went through with them. Also, if you don't have FIOS yet, cheer up, when they started upgrading the CO, they knocked me off the network and didn't have a clue as to what the problem was. They ran their test until their eyes fell out and said, the problem was on my side. I took my bust in and notice that both line had no tone on either line. Just for grins, I hung an O scope on the line and there was not electrical activity at all.

    When they finally sent a tech, he said it was my set up at fault. When I explained to him why that answer was about as dumb as you get, he used his bust in to find out there was no tone.

    The actual failure was a defective FIOS card at the BO! You'll enjoy dealing with Verizon, the reason for the high use of Prozac in the US today. :)
    Rover88's Avatar
    Rover88 Posts: 68, Reputation: 14
    Junior Member
     
    #5

    Nov 20, 2007, 06:55 PM
    Kmcgar should probably check to see whether he has a filter in the NID. If Verizon installed his DSL in 2005 this is quite likely. Earlier installations (1990 or so) always seemed to need the filter installed somewhere in the line.

    Side note to donf: I've heard (but haven't experienced) that FIOS can play havoc with fax signals.
    donf's Avatar
    donf Posts: 5,678, Reputation: 582
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    #6

    Nov 21, 2007, 06:42 AM
    Rover,

    Thanks for the heads up on that one.So far all I've heard on FIOS is the Verizon hype,

    BTW, I was with Ma Bell back in the mid 60s. I pulled out of 555 Tuckahoe Road, Yonkers.

    I left Ma Bell for IBM,
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #7

    Nov 21, 2007, 06:59 AM
    If you have no filter at your double jack, hopefully you have whole house filter.
    White/blue-Blue/white pair is usually line 1, orange pair line 2, green pair line 3, and the 4th pair is brown. I would go out to phone box and see where blue pair is connected, see if you can plug a phone out there to test.
    The bigger these phone companies get, the stupider? They work.
    Where I live, Bell South got so bad, they had to change their name.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #8

    Nov 21, 2007, 08:00 AM
    I disagree on the size of phone companies. My former phony company was so small that it only had one exchange and all the residential numbers had 7 as the fourth digit. They could not make their switching equipment pick all the digits I dialed. I love Vonage.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #9

    Nov 21, 2007, 09:20 AM
    Side note to Rover/donf:

    Modems in general have a lot of problems over VoIP and it's dependent on modem speed.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #10

    Nov 21, 2007, 10:54 AM
    So if you have a high speed internet connection for your VOIP, why would you be doing dial up?
    When I was on dial up, I was paying $55 a month for local phone and internet plus 10 cents a minute too much of my own county. Now I pay $76 for local phone, high speed internet, and unlimited long distance to the USA, Canada, and much of Europe. Trouble is, I don't know anybody in Canada or Europe.
    donf's Avatar
    donf Posts: 5,678, Reputation: 582
    Printers & Electronics Expert
     
    #11

    Nov 21, 2007, 11:10 AM
    KISS,

    When I left the business, VoIP was wreaking havoc on any modem attached to the system. Modems are analog animals and as such don't do so well when attached to digital lins. The fix was to make sure that the various phone companies planned "X" amount of analog lines to accommodate modems.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #12

    Nov 21, 2007, 05:30 PM
    What I am saying about big companies is, My Company would repair it tomorrow. I Treat Communications and Life Safety as Emergency, No communications can severely hurt a Company trying to do Business. My Customers Appreciate it. I also don't get so busy I can't handle Emergencies.
    The "Big"companies, if you can get a hold of the right person, and in this country, to place the order and take care of it without follow up calls. They work for board members and are more "Bottom Line" orientated, rather than "Service" Oriented" of Small companies that Live in their company. I have nothing against Vonage. I see a guy on here, I believe Curly Ben, sounds knowlegable in this area, and am curious myself. I think even in the not too far future, Land lines will severly drop off due to cell phones and Voice over Internet. I have nothing against Big Companies, Only the "Spineless", They have a show, I think"Fleasing of America", they may be in it.

    I understand DSL is Land Line, I was thinking the voice will be secondary, instead of being primary on land line.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #13

    Nov 21, 2007, 05:57 PM
    labman:

    If you were an building manager and had to call in to check onto a building and access the building HVAC system.

    You needed to fax something. Faxing at 14.4 may give problems.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #14

    Nov 21, 2007, 09:53 PM
    KISS, hope all is well, I use a DSC Power 832 Panel with the 5580 TC Automation board.
    It allows control of Alarm System(Arm/Disarm, anything), it allows control of your thermostat, X10 devices, and relay outputs, From any phone in your house, or any phone in the world.

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