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cwire · Jun 7, 2006, 08:34 AM

I recently purchased a home, and am hoping to install a hot tub. My breaker panel has the room to install; however, I am not used to a panel without a main breaker, and want to ensure I am not overloading the box.

Box rates the mains at 125 amp with #1 copper (although it looks as if I have #2). I have th following existing - main 1 (dryer) 30 amp dual poles. Main 2 - 50 amp (range) dual poles. Main 3 60 amp (sub-main for lights, house.. ) dual poles. Main 4 - open.

I want to install up do 50 amp dual poles for the tub, but I already see lights dim in the house when certain appliances start. I am looking for safety first - lack of brownouts second...

Any advice?

tkrussell · Jun 7, 2006, 12:16 PM

What size circuit breaker is feeding this panel? There must be a breaker someplace, if not in the panel, then look at the electric meter, it must be there.

So what size wire is feeding the panel, #1 or #2? What type of insulation?
THHN? XHHW? THW? TW? On the wire insulation you should find the wire size and insulation type stamped.

Which certain appliances cause the lights to flicker?

cwire · Jun 7, 2006, 12:28 PM

I do not see any breaker before the panel / mains - unless it is in the meter box??

The service line wires from meter (I'll have to check on the insulation) say 600 Volt 2 if I recall correctly.

Lights flicker a bit time to time on the dryer. Most "brownouts" happen when the Mrs. uses her hairdryer in the AM. Was OK with that due to it being on a 15 amp circuit (just as it happens when using the iron).

tkrussell · Jun 7, 2006, 01:36 PM

There is a breaker someplace, maybe behind a hinged cover at the meter, but there must be one someplace. The rating of this breaker will set the stage for the ampacity of the panel.

A hair dryer on a same circuit as lighting is normal, this is why the code now requires 20 amp circuits for bathrooms.

I do not understand, the lights ON the dryer flicker?

cwire · Jun 7, 2006, 04:44 PM

I apologize - no, I tend to see the ceiling lights flicker with the dryer running. I think that it may be from the connections on the hall lights near where it is located, rather then caused from the dryer itself. I have to look more carefully.

I am going to take a look into a breaker at the meter, as well as the insulation on the service line, and will be able to get more information for you. Is it possible that there is a breaker IN the meter box that is sealed by the PUD? And why would someone do that?

Thank you for all your insight.

tkrussell · Jun 7, 2006, 04:56 PM

The breaker must be accessible to the occupant, so , no, it should not be behind the seal.

The lights flickering must be looked into soon as this is never normal and it is a symptom of loose connections , either in the panel, meter, or even the utility line.

cwire · Jun 7, 2006, 05:15 PM

I'll be pulling the fixtures on the lights that are flickering. Breaker checked out, and have changed out the 3 way switches (two lights, two switches in the hallway). I am hoping I will find the cause in the fixtures...

cwire · Jun 8, 2006, 10:11 AM

OK - checked the service line and the box again. I do not have a main breaker. The meter is directly above the breaker box, and has no disconnect. The service line coming from the meter directly into the box ( a GE twin load center) has the following printed on them (some taken from one wire, some from another - I wrote down as best I could read):

PAPANITE PARASYN TYPE UF 600V 2 TRENCH LAY

House was built in 1962. Like I said in my first post - I have never seen a house without a main disconnect. I can only assume that this was OK at the time the house was built...

tkrussell · Jun 8, 2006, 12:18 PM

OK well I have never seen such an arrangement, but I never say I have seen everything.

Is the wire #2 copper? If so then the panel shuld be able to handle 100 amps max.
My recommendation is to call in an electrican to review your service and determine if the service can handle the hot tub.