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schwim · Nov 14, 2008, 07:58 AM

Hi there again everyone,

In the process of renovating my living room, I'm setting the circuits to rights as I find them, getting rid of circuits that span three floors, 5 rooms, etc. To do that, I need to use a space saver circuit, until I can find out which circuits are deprecated(the house used to have baseboard heating and there are many unused but still active circuits in the panel).

I have a problem though. The supplier has two types of space saver circuits, with two stock numbers and two prices. The only difference I can see is on the stock sticker, one seems to say "non lin"(linear?).

I'm wondering what the difference is between the two breakers is. Is on conjoined in that if one circuit trips the other does too? Which one do I want?

Thanks,
Json

donf · Nov 14, 2008, 08:54 AM

Whoa!

You are starting at the wrong end of the problem. Start at the main panel and determining what the current rating is (60, 100, 200 amp) and if that will meet your anticpiated load requirements.

As you then evaluate each circuit, please determine what the gauge of the conductors are. If this is a older house I would expect that most of the general circuits are 14 AWG conductors. Right there you are limited to a 15 amp circuit. If you need to increase the circuit to 20 amp, then you must replace the 14 AWG conductors with 12 AWG conductors.

Also, do you need to run grounded circuits or are the circuits already grounded.

Have you considered seeking the help of a licensed electrician in planning your design.

schwim · Nov 14, 2008, 09:25 AM

Hi there Don,

Could you share the difference between the two compact circuits?

Thanks,
Json

KISS · Nov 14, 2008, 09:38 AM

They may have different trip curves like for motor loads.

There is a tandem breaker where the poles are joined. So a 2 pole tandem breaker should be used for 240 appliances

There are regular 1 pole breakers and there are 2 pole independen operated breakers that can be had in 15 A/15 A, 15/20 or 20/20 configuration. These allow more circuits in the panelboard in less space,

The panelboard has a "maximum poles" rating. This should not be exceeded. It's basically the number of wires connected to the breakers.

Post part numbers or better yet links to breaker specs and we can sort it out.

schwim · Nov 14, 2008, 09:43 AM

Hey, thanks for the reply:

Here's the two breakers in question:

20/20
20/20 non-clip

I'm having problem finding a spec list on them and it doesn't seem to be a common-trip system, but something else(judging by the fact that they also designate common-trip circuits).

Thanks,
Json

KISS · Nov 14, 2008, 10:25 AM

Here are the specs for the QT breakers:

https://www2.sea.siemens.com/NR/rdon...BB/0/SQT98.pdf

It appears that your vendor is pulling your leg and making up his own part numbers. I'll bet that "non Clip" means "Non common trip" or independent. The independent breaker is going to cost more, so it's consistent.

Bet the 20/20 is common trip for 240 loads
And the 20/20 Clip is non-common trip for 2 120 V loads.

Time for a phone call /email with the seamens datasheet in hand.

I don't see that manufacturer's part number *** listed on their data sheet. Do you mean this one ***

Remember too, that pictures are not always correct.

KISS · Nov 14, 2008, 04:00 PM

I accidentally did some more research for you. I wa sin Lowe's and they had both breakers.
One was marked CT-For replacement use only. No for CTL assemblies. One is also marked "2020 Class CTL".

I think the breakers were marked "2020 NC" and "2020 Class CTL"

Further research yieled:

Circuit Breakers: CTL Assemblies

So, apparently one design allows the use of space saving breakers and the other does not.
Apparently some time ago, the number of breakers and spaces were the same.

As usual, I forgot which model was which. I think you should be able to figure it out. On one cas the breakers fit into both panels, one illegally. In the other case it fits in only one panel.

stanfortyman · Nov 14, 2008, 04:19 PM

Those are 1" BR style breakers and NEITHER is a 120/240v two pole. They are skinnys, space savers, twins, tandems, whatever name you want to use.