Check out some similar questions!

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 12:50 AM

I am thinking of ventilating 2 separate bathrooms with one attic-mounted Panasonic inline fan.

I wanted to install a timer in bathroom A and a timer in bathroom B to control the fan. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a 3-way timer. The idea of using 2 timers in a parallel circuit crossed my mind, but it's an irregular setup that will confuse someone in the future.

The Leviton PR180 motion sensor caught my attention. In theory, a pair could operate like a 3-way switch.

Yet, I have been reading other threads and it seems that a lot of people have ended up hacking a solution to make pairing PR180s work. Has anyone successfully used 2 PR180s in a classic 3-way wiring configuration?

BTW, if you have another solution, other than give up and install 2 fans ;) , I'd love to hear it.

Cheers!

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 01:11 AM

I don't like the "3-way" idea because then, just as the fan can be turned on from either bathroom, it can be turned off from either bathroom. Someone can walk in and, thinking they are turning the fan on, actually turn it off. Or turn it off not realizing it is still being used for the other bathroom.

The parallel idea is interesting-- maybe something with a relay?

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

I dont like the "3-way" idea because then, just as the fan can be turned on from either bathroom, it can be turned off from either bathroom. Someone can walk in and, thinking they are turning the fan on, actually turn it off. Or turn it off not realizing it is still being used for the other bathroom.

The parallel idea is interesting-- maybe something with a relay?

Excellent point. I suspect this is why Levition only shows one in use (with a jumper) http://tinyurl.com/y9gf7x
Do you have any info or ideas on relays? Once I get a project in my head...

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 01:32 AM

I think it's a great project and there is probably something made specifically for this application. TK would know. If we're not talking specifically about ceiling fans then I am out of my element and it's always best to wait for him to weigh in.

There are many different types of relays, some are very standard and available at Radio Shack and the like. But I am thinking making something not unlike the commercial lighting controls that have many touch-panels dimmable from one location. Or maybe you could use X10 or something like that.

I'm wondering what the downside is to the simplest option, which is the two switches in parallel. It seems un-kosher to me, and yet I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work or wouldn't be safe. Maybe that's because it's 2.30am.

omzig · Nov 14, 2006, 07:22 AM

As long as they both originated from the same circuit, I don't see a problem with two timers in parallel either, other than the fact if you wanted to manually turn off the fan, you wouldn't be able to do it from both locations.

I'm just curious, why do you want to do this?

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 11:47 AM

I don't know why he wants to do it, but I like the idea because bathroom fans are noisy and ineffective. His method seems like it might be less noisy and more effective.

omzig · Nov 14, 2006, 12:27 PM

Oh, I definitely agree with the noise reduction. That's why on my latest bathroom addition I put an inline fan in the attic. I was more curious as to why he wants to use one for two bathrooms. Maybe cost, or only needing one hole in the house/roof. With backdraft dampers, I wyed the ducts together from two fans, and used the same roof cap.

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 02:09 PM

Why you ask? Well for the same reason that I rewired my garage as a machine shop, ran ethernet and satellite cable throughout every room of my house, installed ceiling lighting in every bedroom, and fixed every nightmarish mistake made by some do-it-yourself hack over the past 2 decades. I'm a details guy.

I do have practical considerations:
- I live in an urban home with 2 small bathrooms (5x7 and 6x7)
- Each has a Nutone type fan (3" pipe) which serve as useless noise makers (as in wake you up loud)
- There is only one roof vent - both 3 inch pipes join in a Y at the top right at the exhaust (it's not pretty - another hack I suspect)
- I don't want to climb 3 stories to install a new roof or soffit exhaust vent
- I have over 8 feet of attic height, which makes it easy to work up there
- Buying one inline Panasonic fan + 2 grills should save me money over 2 Panasonic ceiling units

I am open to alternative solutions - someone mentioned vent dampers, which is of interest to me - but of course that takes us out of the electrical context.

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by uiguy

Why you ask? Well for the same reason that I rewired my garage as a machine shop, ran ethernet and satellite cable throughout every room of my house, installed ceiling lighting in every bedroom, and fixed every nightmarish mistake made by some do-it-yourself hack over the past 2 decades. I'm a details guy.

Yes but how many ceiling FANS did you install? :)

If you have over 8' of attic height I am surprised you are not creating a secret lair up there.

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

Yes but how many ceiling FANS did you install? :)

If you have over 8' of attic height I am surprised you are not creating a secret lair up there.

One and I did a good job of it. Residential ceiling fans used to be nasty looking, but now you can get a lot of really cool modern units. E.g. modernfan.com, dwr.com, etc. We actually settled for the Hampton Bay Vercelli from Home Depot http://tinyurl.com/y5jve2 I like the retro/industrial look and it hugs the ceiling nicely.

It turned out to be my first tip of the iceburg project. I thought I'd be done in an hour, but when I went into the attic to examine the ceiling box, I found a live wire sitting in the insulation. Livid about that, I ended up redoing a good section of wiring, wiring the attic for lighting (since I was up there), ripping out the existing box, screwing in a new 2x6 support and junction box, adding a vapour barrier, adding new insulation to the area, and of course running a new wire for the fan load. I don't like the remote control switches; I prefer a hard wired circuit even if it means doing some wall cutting. Finally, five evenings later, it was done.

The only lairs I found are from the pesky field mice that hibernate in my insulation. ;)

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM

I actually don't like most of the designs for sale nowadays. I collect ceiling fans from the 80s, 70s, and earlier, and prefer the more traditional, solidly-built designs that aren't attempting to be a modern piece of art or décor. This is one of my sites:

http://www.geocities.com/mt_spiffy/

Seeing as you bought a Hampton Bay fan, I doubt your project is over. Take a look at some of the many questions posted to this forum. You'll be back!

omzig · Nov 14, 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by uiguy

I am open to alternative solutions - someone mentioned vent dampers, which is of interest to me.

When I ran 2 ducts together, if only one fan was on, I'd always get a little backdraft through the one that was off. So I installed a backdraft damper in each duct before the wye. http://www.energyfederation.org/cons...ath/86_744_113

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by omzig

When I ran 2 ducts together, if only one fan was on, I'd always get a little backdraft through the one that was off. So I installed a backdraft damper in each duct before the wye. http://www.energyfederation.org/cons...ath/86_744_113

These would work perfectly. I'm up north, so they would solve the winter cold air from dropping back into the room as well. (talk about taking a thread topic off course... )

omzig · Nov 14, 2006, 07:02 PM

I don't think that anyone has a problem with a minor stray off topic here and there.

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

I actually dont like most of the designs for sale nowdays. I collect ceiling fans from the 80s, 70s, and earlier, and prefer the more traditional, solidly-built designs that arent attempting to be a modern piece of art or decor. This is one of my sites:

http://www.geocities.com/mt_spiffy/

Seeing as you bought a Hampton Bay fan, I doubt your project is over. Take a look at some of the many questions posted to this forum. You'll be back!

I guess we part company on our eras. I'm a modern design lover; if you have modern fans from the 50s (like this imitation http://www.g2art.com/prod/F814 ) I'd be interested. BTW, the light diffuser on your Polished Brass Tara with Cane Blades is awesome.

LOL. HBs are looking pretty bad. They must have a team working hard to generate that many faults. It's not like they're cheap.

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 10:13 PM

That's not my fan, but thanks. I see shades like that from time to time.

I like the original vintage fans, including some designs we would now call "retro-modern", but not the imitations they make now. Like the one you linked, it's ugly to me. Only the light portion looks authentic, they never would have made a fan like that in the 50s. Email me, I'll send you a link to pictures of some of the fans I do have. I doubt any of them are your style but you never know.

The Hampton Bay factory presumably resembles the commonly seen footage of a room full of monkeys with typewriters.

uiguy · Nov 14, 2006, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by ceilingfanrepair

I like the original vintage fans, including some designs we would now call "retro-modern", but not the imitations they make now. Like the one you linked, it's ugly to me. Only the light portion looks authentic, they never would have made a fan like that in the 50s.

I think we agree. Authentic retro-modern pieces refer to the correct and licenced reproduction of original pieces. For example, buying a 2006 Nelson clock from Vitra (even though it's quartz) is an authentic continuation of the original plug-in model of the 50s. It's just a product after all, and products are updated. Would I like an original? Sure, but I'm just as happy with my new one.

So yes, this fan - which is an interpretation of some 50s design - is not of interest to me either. I'd be more satisfied with an original, or with a 2006 design from an interesting studio in Stockholm or Cali, or just not care and buy a Hampton Bay (which I understand now will spontaneously combust). :rolleyes:

ceilingfanrepair · Nov 14, 2006, 11:56 PM

Yes Hampton Bays are very dangerous-- if we buy them, we're letting the terrorists win.