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    dexterslab's Avatar
    dexterslab Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 24, 2011, 02:29 AM
    Is there really global warming?
    Or is it just a natural process of the earth to heal itself
    RickJ's Avatar
    RickJ Posts: 7,762, Reputation: 864
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    #2

    Jun 24, 2011, 05:22 AM

    The earth has experienced warming and cooling cycles since it's existence.

    It seems that we're in a warming cycle now but whether humans are causing it is arguable.
    Unknown008's Avatar
    Unknown008 Posts: 8,076, Reputation: 723
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    #3

    Jun 24, 2011, 07:36 AM

    Apparently, this 'warming cycle' is abnormally hot as compared to all the previous ones.

    But with the recent massive development everywhere in the world, I'm among those who believe that there is at least some of the warming due to mankind.
    vince007's Avatar
    vince007 Posts: 3, Reputation: 0
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    #4

    Sep 12, 2011, 09:40 PM
    This modern return to an interglacial "warm" period is just a normal fluctuation to the normal earth temperature. It is the glacial period that is abnormal, albeit frequent - about each 25,000 years during the last 2 million years. Shoreline heights have been mapped throughout the world, mostly on islands, and show that the current sea level is on par with previous interglacial maximums. Over the long term, the earth has cooled about 10 degrees f over the last 60 million years, attributed to the cooling of the earths core. Thus it is no mystery that reptiles ('gators) lived as far north as Alaska in the past. All of this information is contained in any college level introductory text on geology.

    During the last glacial period, about 12,000 years ago, earth sea levels were about 300 feet lower than the present. This is because so much water was locked up in ice that the continental ice sheet reached as far south as Kansas in the US. Ice over the great lakes was at least 2 miles thick, and deformed the earth's crust downward, forming the great lakes. These glacial ice sheets have retreated to their present position during these last 12,000 years and it is doubtful if caveman Og is responsible for this because of his CO2 emitting wagon. It is not clear exactly which day the ocean will stop rising -now, perhaps another 200 years, or, as many maintain, we actually reached our interglacial maximum 3000 years ago and are just in a "jittery" period before plunging back into the next ice age.

    Global warming is not a problem, but global cooling is going to be a very big problem. Look at the pyramid distribution around the world - that is the place you are going to want to live in the future.
    Unknown008's Avatar
    Unknown008 Posts: 8,076, Reputation: 723
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    #5

    Sep 13, 2011, 12:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by vince007 View Post
    This modern return to an interglacial "warm" period is just a normal fluctuation to the normal earth temperature. It is the glacial period that is abnormal, albeit frequent - about each 25,000 years during the last 2 million years. Shoreline heights have been mapped throughout the world, mostly on islands, and show that the current sea level is on par with previous interglacial maximums. Over the long term, the earth has cooled about 10 degrees f over the last 60 million years, attributed to the cooling of the earths core. Thus it is no mystery that reptiles ('gators) lived as far north as Alaska in the past. All of this information is contained in any college level introductory text on geology.

    During the last glacial period, about 12,000 years ago, earth sea levels were about 300 feet lower than the present. This is because so much water was locked up in ice that the continental ice sheet reached as far south as Kansas in the US. Ice over the great lakes was at least 2 miles thick, and deformed the earth's crust downward, forming the great lakes. These glacial ice sheets have retreated to their present position during these last 12,000 years and it is doubtful if caveman Og is responsible for this because of his CO2 emiting wagon. It is not clear exactly which day the ocean will stop rising -now, perhaps another 200 years, or, as many maintain, we actually reached our interglacial maximum 3000 years ago and are just in a "jittery" period before plunging back into the next ice age.

    Global warming is not a problem, but global cooling is going to be a very big problem. Look at the pyramid distribution around the world - that is the place you are going to want to live in the future.
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. How can you account for the extra rise in temperature that has been occurring since the industrial revolution? Of course the caveman Og could not have done that, but a boom in industries, a rapid expansion of a world population, of now 6.8 billion, and consumption, is using up a whole lot of resources, resources which regulated the warming and cooling cycles. Now that they are in smaller size, and that industrial activities arise constantly, if not, exponentially, do you really think that the Earth is experiencing a usual warming/cooling cycle? I don't think so.

    Why do you think so many people are investing in renewable sources of energy? Why do you think people are looking for ways to escape the Earth to settle on other planets?

    This is a graph showing the variation of the temperature of the Earth as for the past 10,000 years ago:


    I'm not saying that there has never been such a temperature before, but many factors have to be considered:
    - Solar activity has increased since, and will cause a greater rise in temperature;
    - There is a whole lot more of carbon dioxide and other green house gases in our atmosphere than then, meaning when the Earth warms up, it will take much more time to cool back down as compared to the rapid decrease you can see 11,000 years ago. And trees are in lower numbers, which means that carbon dioxide will stay in the atmosphere for an even longer period.
    - Because of CFCs, there are holes in the ozone layer, which do not get fixed from one year to another, allowing more sun rays to enter the atmosphere.
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
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    #6

    Sep 14, 2011, 05:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by vince007 View Post
    This modern return to an interglacial "warm" period is just a normal fluctuation to the normal earth temperature. It is the glacial period that is abnormal, albeit frequent - about each 25,000 years during the last 2 million years. Shoreline heights have been mapped throughout the world, mostly on islands, and show that the current sea level is on par with previous interglacial maximums. Over the long term, the earth has cooled about 10 degrees f over the last 60 million years, attributed to the cooling of the earths core. Thus it is no mystery that reptiles ('gators) lived as far north as Alaska in the past. All of this information is contained in any college level introductory text on geology.

    During the last glacial period, about 12,000 years ago, earth sea levels were about 300 feet lower than the present. This is because so much water was locked up in ice that the continental ice sheet reached as far south as Kansas in the US. Ice over the great lakes was at least 2 miles thick, and deformed the earth's crust downward, forming the great lakes. These glacial ice sheets have retreated to their present position during these last 12,000 years and it is doubtful if caveman Og is responsible for this because of his CO2 emiting wagon. It is not clear exactly which day the ocean will stop rising -now, perhaps another 200 years, or, as many maintain, we actually reached our interglacial maximum 3000 years ago and are just in a "jittery" period before plunging back into the next ice age.

    Global warming is not a problem, but global cooling is going to be a very big problem. Look at the pyramid distribution around the world - that is the place you are going to want to live in the future.
    Hi Vince,


    Just one question.

    You are happy to say that proxy data is enough to determine what is normal in terms of "interglacial warm periods?"

    Tut
    vince007's Avatar
    vince007 Posts: 3, Reputation: 0
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    #7

    Sep 14, 2011, 08:35 AM
    1) I always love graphs with no scale on the Y axis.
    2) When I studied physics and chemistry, we were taught about the solubilies of gases and fluids; specifically that they are temperature dependent. In this regard, increased CO2 in the atmosphere is due to temperature increase, i.e. not the cause. Repeat: increased CO2 is the result of rising temperatures and not the cause.
    3) There are 6,500 active volcanoes on earth today. Please consider that CO2 output, and recall that all atmospheric gasses on earth have a volcanic source.
    4) Certain times on earth (most notably, Permian) have thick carbonate deposits across much of the marine-sphere. That is a lot of Carbon locked up, and points to the fact the ocean works as a huge carbon buffer, none of which is considered in CO2 climate models.
    5) If you make a simple graph of time vs temperature and consider two well constrained points,you will see that the long term rate of warming is identical to the short term rate. Those two points would be Kansas, 12,000 years ago, and Kansas today. We can assume the average temperature 12,000 years ago was 32F because this the tip of the ice sheet - by definition the point where it melts/ doesn't melt. The national weather service can show you the average temperature today. Plot these up and you will see that the long term rate of warming is identical to the current rate. The debate about "man-made" global warming is really just a debate if 1935 should be considered a static data point in earth's weather history "the year the weather stood still, and the year we want weather to be".
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #8

    Sep 14, 2011, 08:49 AM
    Hello d:

    The Earth IS warming. The question is, is MAN doing it... I'd say yes. The bulk of the worlds scientists agree with me, too..

    I'm not scientist, but to ME, there IS a downside from throwing TRASH into the air. It doesn't surprise me at all that it has an effect on our atmosphere. You can SEE, with your very own eyes that we effect it by the smog in your air. What?? Smog ain't doing anything negative?? Of course, it is.

    excon
    Unknown008's Avatar
    Unknown008 Posts: 8,076, Reputation: 723
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    #9

    Sep 14, 2011, 12:27 PM
    1. The middle broken line is the mean temperature of the Earth, or 14 C. The highest part in the graph is at +0.6 C from the average temperature.

    2. A rise in temperature will decrease the solubility of carbon dioxide from the sea, yes, and a rise in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will increase the temperature of the Earth, then this will make more carbon dioxide escape from the oceans, which means even more carbon dioxide will be in the atmosphere to increase the temperature. Your point? The difference from THEN and NOW is that there are less trees and the planktons cannot absorb more carbon dioxide to allow the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to go to its average level.

    3. There could have been more, there were more before, but there was also more vegetation which could take up the carbon dioxide.

    4. This is pretty much your same point as in 2, and my answer will be the same.

    5. You cannot compare only one point, but all the points across the globe. That said, every site I see about Kansas says that the ice sheet is depleting :rolleyes:
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #10

    Jan 4, 2012, 04:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown008 View Post
    This is a graph showing the variation of the temperature of the Earth as for the past 10,000 years ago:


    .
    All you have proven is that what we are experiencing is within normal variability. I'm not saying industralisation hasn't had an impact on the level of CO2, deforestation has had a greater impact and rising temperature may also be attributable to that or to variability in the solar cycle. I think we really need to prove that heightened CO2 is actually a bad thing. CO2 levels have been higher in the distant past and temperature highr 2000 years ago. This is an unnecessary panic
    mslmn's Avatar
    mslmn Posts: 11, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Jul 16, 2012, 04:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dexterslab View Post
    Or is it just a natural process of the earth to heal itself
    The weather shows that..

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