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    Jessyfay's Avatar
    Jessyfay Posts: 164, Reputation: 4
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    #1

    Mar 22, 2007, 01:25 PM
    What is more healthy for dog to eat?
    I just watched a documentry on dried dog food, and I'm shocked! Do you know how much processed garbage goes into the food, they get the worst picks of the food, rotton fruit and veggies, end pieces of meat, anything they can't sell for meat goes to pet food.
    How can people say pet food is healthier than people food?

    My question is which is more healthy for your dog to eat?
    Processed, dried at over 90 degrees Celsius, pebbles that have been stored in bags for who knows how long.
    OR
    Blan, home cooked, No spices or additives, just plain jane, boiled mixture of veggies and meat. I'm talking a combination of yams,turkey,peas,carrots,spinich with some grapes and cheese on the side.

    How can people say feed only pet food to your pets, when now the pet food we feed them are filled with additives and preservitives and chemicals and a huge wheat gluten filler, that is causing kidney failure in some animals. I think it's time to start cooking for our own animals.
    heather83's Avatar
    heather83 Posts: 92, Reputation: 4
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    #2

    Mar 22, 2007, 01:35 PM
    For some people cooking for their pets is just more of a hassle than it's worth. If you have the time and the money to make your own homemade dog food then that's awesome! There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your dog a well balanced "people food" diet. Commercial dog food is mostly made for convenience; not all of it is bad, there are still standards for what they can and can't put in there. People will probably say your spoiling your dog by making his food, but you know what, it's your dog! I know of people who have actually created a vegan diet for their dogs. You can find some really good recipes for "good" dog food online, and I'm sure you can talk to your vet. You'll just have to keep in mind that there are some things that just may not appeal to your dog, so you may have to play around with different things to make sure he's getting all the vitamins and nutrients that he needs.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #3

    Mar 22, 2007, 02:06 PM
    I am afraid that ''documentary'' was another Hollywood fiction piece, 100% junk science. A great example of the hogwash that is out there about dog care. I hope for the sake of your dog, you ignore it. I challenge Heather83 to post a link to a large, controlled, scientific study showing dogs fared better on something other than a standard dog kibble. Sorry, please don't waste my time with the same lame lists of ingredients and ranting and raving about how terrible they are. Over the years, I have seen plenty of those, but no proof.

    Suppose you knew a breeder that bred hundreds of dogs a year, mostly Labs, Shepherds, and Goldens. They provided all the medical care for most of them the first year. At the end of it, they did a complete physical including hip X-rays on all of them. They then spent $35,000 training them before giving them away. They have a large data base of breeding records. Dogs with any physical or temperamental problems are unfit for the program and are a waste. Their well equipped clinic and vet staff are available for serious problems as long as the dog is working. When the dog is no longer able to work, it is replaced at again the $35,000 plus a large emotional upheaval for the person depending on the dog. They have experimented with different diets and exchanged data with other such breeders. Don't you think that what ever they are feeding is healthy and safe? What kinds of controlled studies did that documentary include? How objective are the sources of your information? Is your dog's health, their top priority? Remember, people are making money on some of these alternative diets.

    I have been raising puppies since 1991 for a large dog guide school that does exactly that. What do they feed? They instruct us to feed Pro Plan chicken and rice puppy chow until 4 months and then switch to adult Pro Plan chicken and rice. I know enough of the people with the trained dogs to know they continue the Pro Plan. The group I meet with monthly for training includes people that have raised puppies for 6 different service dog schools. Some of them are feeding other premium commercial chows including Iams and Eukanuba. Any dog owner wanting a healthy, long lived dog can make this regimen work, leaving more time to spend on the dog. It is also relatively economical.

    I don't feed kibble because it is convenient, I feed kibble because people with real, hard data say it is the healthiest for the dog.
    RubyPitbull's Avatar
    RubyPitbull Posts: 3,575, Reputation: 648
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    #4

    Mar 22, 2007, 02:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessyfay
    I just watched a documentry on dried dog food, and I'm shocked! do you know how much processed garbage goes into the food, they get the worst picks of the food, rotton fruit and veggies, end pieces of meat, anything they can't sell for meat goes to pet food.
    How can people say pet food is healthier than people food?

    My question is which is more healthy for your dog to eat?
    Processed, dried at over 90 degrees celcius, pebbles that have been stored in bags for who knows how long.
    OR
    Blan, home cooked, No spices or additives, just plain jane, boiled mixture of veggies and meat. I'm talking a combination of yams,turkey,peas,carrots,spinich with some grapes and cheese on the side.

    How can people say feed only pet food to your pets, when now the pet food we feed them are filled with additives and preservitives and chemicals and a huge wheat gluten filler, that is causing kidney failure in some animals. I think it's time to start cooking for our own animals.
    I feed my dog a premium kibble that does not have additives and has an expiration date on the bag, like human food does. This kibble is balanced to my dog's needs. Due to a poor start in life, she was left with an intestinal problem. This is the only food that does not make her ill, cleans her teeth properly (which is an important reason to feed dried over wet), and it is only sold by veterinarians. There are some very good brands that are sold in pet stores that are all natural without byproducts, some are holistic. It comes down to reading as much as you can, asking your vet and other experts as many questions as you can think of so that you are a fully and well informed pet owner.

    You do have people that will cook for their dogs but personally I don't think home cooked meals are better for our pets. It actually winds up being a lot more expensive and they go bad quickly. More importantly, they don't help remove the tartar buildup that is important to a dog's overall health. There are so many foods out there now that are formulated specifically for your dog (or cat) to help them lead long, healthy and productive lives. Those foods without the additives do tend to be on the more expensive side but I find ways to cut back on my expenses so that I can afford to give my dog what is the best and the healthiest for her needs.
    Jessyfay's Avatar
    Jessyfay Posts: 164, Reputation: 4
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    #5

    Mar 22, 2007, 04:05 PM
    Here in Canada we don't have regulations for pet food, anybody can start making and distubuting pet food. This is from the local news when investigating the pet food recall.
    So how do I know what is safe kibble for my dog, with no regulations, I've been feeding my pets the most expensive pet food I buy at a health food pet store and I just find out that is is in a long list of recalled food and that list consists of cheap grocery store food too.
    Was or Is it worth investing to buy this expensive pet food when it is in the same list as regular grocery store food? How do you know if it is good kibble?
    And what do they do or put in kibble that makes it better for your pet than the actual food itself?
    RubyPitbull's Avatar
    RubyPitbull Posts: 3,575, Reputation: 648
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    #6

    Mar 22, 2007, 04:10 PM
    There are added vitamins and minerals necessary for a dog's diet. Specifically, I don't have the packaging on hand. I put her food in a sealed container when I open it up and throw the bag away.

    I think this situation was out of the ordinary. I was just watching the news and they still aren't quite sure what is causing it. They think that it is possible the wheat was sprayed with an insecticide.

    The important thing in this is that it is the wet food that is the problem. For now, it would be a good idea to switch all your pets to a dry kibble. If your cats don't like it, then you might want to add some warm water to it to make it softer and create a gravy.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #7

    Mar 22, 2007, 06:08 PM
    Dogs' nutritional needs are quite well known. What makes any commercial dog chow better than any home diet is the careful formulation and testing. The dog food manufacturers know what dogs need, and know what is in the various ingredients going into the chow. Different chows use different ingredients, but all of them in the end have the balance to give the dog the complete diet it needs. They suspect the problem is the wheat gluten in the recalled chows. I checked Pro Plan, and it has corn gluten, likely giving about the same nutrients as the wheat gluten.

    What to feed your pets now? I would stick to a name brand dry chow. I am sure Purina, Nestle, Proctor and Gamble, etc. don't sell junk in Canada because of fewer regulations. I am sure the Pro Plan or Iams you can buy, is the same proven product as what my local pet store sells.

    I don't quibble about how unappetizing some of what goes into a chow such as Pro Plan is. At a meat processing plant, all the nutritious insides including the organ meats are removed. They are sold to the commercial dog food producers. Have you ever seen a predator eat a kill? What do they eat first? Right, all those nasty byproducts that go into the commercial dog food.

    If I was looking for a home for a dog, and one promised home cooked meals, and the other Old Roy, I would place the dog where it was going to get the Old Roy. Old Roy meets the minimum AAFCO standards.

    It is obvious something broke down in the system. However, things break down in the human food chain and we have deaths and recalls.
    heather83's Avatar
    heather83 Posts: 92, Reputation: 4
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    #8

    Mar 23, 2007, 12:07 PM
    Read what animal nutrition expert Pat McKay says about cooked/processed/commercial pet food:
    Reigning Cats and Dogs : Good Nutrition Healthy Happy Animals

    "Cooked food is dead. Everything in a can or a bag is cooked. All processed foods for people or animals have been cooked, sterilized, or pasteurized, which means all the enzymes that are needed to digest and utilize the food are destroyed. The saying "We are what we eat" is not exactly correct. We are what we utilize.

    "Live food is essential for health. It is the ultimate source of life. There is no other way to be disease free. No matter who tells you that a certain brand of commercial food or home-cooked food is healthy, it is not. It is dead no enzymes, no friendly bacteria. Veterinarians, animal nutritionists, pet store owners, store clerks, authors of nutrition books, or anyone else suggesting cooked foods are not familiar with which foods and supplements are necessary for health. If they were, they would not be prescribing, suggesting, and selling cooked foods for carnivores. ALL canines and felines were designed to eat RAW food.

    "The key to health is keeping live foods in the body. Live foods have enzymes; little protein molecules, which are essential for digesting food, for stimulating the brain, for providing cellular energy, for repairing all tissues, organs, and cells, and functions so diverse that it is impossible to name them all.

    "Animals and people cannot exist without enzymes. It is a myth that you can take supplements and make up for enzymes. Supplemental enzymes, vitamins, and minerals can be very helpful, but they do not make up for RAW food."
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #9

    Mar 23, 2007, 12:54 PM
    The same old opinions with no scientific evidence backing them. It is highly irresponsible to advocate a raw diet for dogs without warning people of the need to protect themselves from food born diseases. It is a big enough problem now that the FDA and the CDC has joined the AVMA in opposing BARF and other raw diets. Anybody interested in facts, not conjecture, can read about it at Raw meat diets spark concern - January 15, 2005

    Funny how many dogs haven't read about the problems with kibble and are thriving in it.
    Jessyfay's Avatar
    Jessyfay Posts: 164, Reputation: 4
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    #10

    Mar 23, 2007, 01:22 PM
    My pet store offers a raw food diet for dogs, isn't this a better choice than dried kibble?
    RubyPitbull's Avatar
    RubyPitbull Posts: 3,575, Reputation: 648
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    #11

    Mar 23, 2007, 01:24 PM
    Jessyfay, I think you should click on the link that labman provided above your posting. It is very informative.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #12

    Mar 23, 2007, 02:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessyfay
    My pet store offers a raw food diet for dogs, isnt' this a better choice than dried kibble?
    The FDA and CDC have gotten into the dog food controversy exactly because the BARF in a box , like your pet store is selling, frequently is highly contaminated with salmonella and other bacteria. People that fail to scrub their hands good with a germicidal soap after handling their dog's food get sick and even die. The AVMA, the FDA, the CDC, and the dog guide school, that most of my info comes from, don't sell any kind of dog food. Please don't let somebody's marketing hype lure you into choices unsafe for both you and your dog.

    The nonsense about raw food has come up time after time here and other sites I belong to. Each time I challenge people to direct me to a scientific study showing dogs eating raw diets are healthier than dogs on kibble. What I get are discourses by people like Pat McKay saying things such as heat destroys enzymes, but no real proof. With thousands of dogs, that it cost the price of a nice car in their care, don't you think the vets from the dog guide school have talked to dog nutritionists, most of whom support conventional dog diets?

    Do you understand science isn't about speculating that heat destroys enzymes, but actually feeding different diets and seeing how the dogs do? Aristotle thought it through and concluded heavy objects fall faster than lighter ones. Most educated people believed that until the dawn of modern science when Galileo lugged the large and small iron balls up that tower. Funny thing, those balls hadn't read Aristotle and both hit the ground at once.

    Here is a picture of some dogs ranging from about 6 months to 13 years that have eaten Pro Plan most of their life.

    RubyPitbull's Avatar
    RubyPitbull Posts: 3,575, Reputation: 648
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    #13

    Mar 23, 2007, 02:49 PM
    labman, which one are you? :p

    Just kiddin'. They are beautiful! I feel like I am looking at double negatives with the white in the background and the black in the foreground.

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