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    Biggiesmallsbig's Avatar
    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Sep 16, 2013, 02:42 PM
    Dog viciously goes for other dogs in apartment complex.
    I have a Plot Hound named mouse. Him and I are great match he loves hiking and camping with me and stays by me all the time. My girlfriend moved in not too long ago and we had to work with him because he started being really dominant towards her. He's so much better but there is still one issue.

    He is so aggressive towards other dogs in my apartment complex. It's like a snarling, lunging, loud barks/howl at the dog when I'm walking him outside to let him out. He is good with other dogs once he meets them, I have babysat my girlfriends dog and left them both and they would get into small scuffles but her dog was the one that initiated it every time.

    When I bring him to my mother's house that has two dogs he just wants to play with them. So it only happens when we walk around corners or if he sees a dog in the distance.

    I've tried:

    Gentle lead-he flings his body until he gets out of it.

    Treats when he ignores the dog and all he does is go right back to it and doesn't care at all about the food.

    Flipping him on his back to put him in a submissive position but he just scratches the hell out of me like it's life or death to get back at the dog.

    Pinch collar-almost as if he ignores the pain and just keeps lunging and going awol at the dog he sees

    I even have watched the dog whisperer guy correct a dogs behavior by changing the way the owner's behavior is when she takes the dog outside. Like being calm and talk nicely so it goes to his head to be calm too but he still freaks out no matter what.

    I love him to pieces and everything else he's a perfect dog otherwise its just this one thing is so bad with him and I want to put him in classes at petsmart but I'm worried at what he will do and we will get kicked out.

    PLEASE HELP!
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #2

    Sep 16, 2013, 03:51 PM
    How old is he?

    Is he neutered?
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    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Sep 16, 2013, 03:57 PM
    He is about 2 years old and he was neutered when we got him when he was 7 months old.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #4

    Sep 16, 2013, 03:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    He is about 2 years old and he was neutered when we got him when he was 7 months old.
    Where did you get him from? What was his behavior like when you got him? How well was he socialized before you got him? If you know.
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    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #5

    Sep 16, 2013, 04:01 PM
    We got him from a animal shelter after they found him (stray) in a farm field. He was always very friendly. Defensive over food but we slowly got him over it and I don't know anything about his socialization before we got him.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #6

    Sep 16, 2013, 04:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    We got him from a animal shelter after they found him (stray) in a farm field. He was always very friendly. Defensive over food but we slowly got him over it and I don't know anything about his socialization before we got him.
    If he was found as a stray at 7 months, it's unlikely he was properly socialized.

    Sorry to ask so many questions, but sadly that's the nature of dealing with animal issues. Please bear with me.

    So you got him at 7 months. What did you do next? He's now 2 years old. When did you start noticing his aggression to other dogs? Has it always been that way, or did it start when the girlfriend moved in?

    How often is he walked? How often is he around other dogs?
    Biggiesmallsbig's Avatar
    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Sep 16, 2013, 04:13 PM
    We had him at a house where no dogs lived and then I moved after he was about a year and a half old to the apartment complex with lots of dogs where he gradually got worse. He also stands in front of our glass sliding door and puffs his chest and breathes heavily every time he sees a dog outside. We noticed it before she was in the picture as well so I don't believe she was to initiate the behavior.

    I try to run him several times a week. I don't take him on walks unless it is to the bathroom. He is around my parents dogs every other weekend for just a day or two so he is not around dogs much either.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #8

    Sep 16, 2013, 04:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    We had him at a house where no dogs lived and then i moved after he was about a year and a half old to the apartment complex with lots of dogs where he gradually got worse. He also stands in front of our glass sliding door and puffs his chest and breathes heavily every time he sees a dog outside. We noticed it before she was in the picture as well so I don't believe she was to initiate the behavior.

    I try to run him several times a week. I don't take him on walks unless it is to the bathroom. He is around my parents dogs every other weekend for just a day or two so he is not around dogs much either.
    Dogs are territorial creatures. Unless they're socialized they'll view every other dog as an invader of their territory. In the wild it's attack first, ask questions later.

    It sounds like he's never been properly socialized with other dogs. Not your fault, at 7 months he should already have been socialized, but wasn't.

    He's male, and being territorial and confrontational is part of being a male dog.

    I would highly suggest consulting with an animal behaviorist. If you tell me your general area (not your street address, but the state, province, etc) that you live in, I may be able to find one for you. Or you can try googling for your area. Not a pet smart trainer, but an actual animal behaviorist with a degree.

    This is something that sadly, I can't fix for you. I'd have to see your dog, I'd have to interact with him, and I can't do that online.
    Biggiesmallsbig's Avatar
    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #9

    Sep 16, 2013, 07:46 PM
    Thanks for the advice and yea that sounds great! I didn't think about seeing a behavioralist but I'de love that peace of mind with him. I could try a roscoe IL area or Sharon WI I live in sharon so that would be a more convenient place to look around but roscoe I visit often so anything around there would be good too.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #10

    Sep 17, 2013, 03:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    Thanks for the advice and yea that sounds great! I didn't think about seeing a behavioralist but I'de love that peace of mind with him. I could try a roscoe IL area or Sharon WI I live in sharon so that would be a more convenient place to look around but roscoe I visit often so anything around there would be good too.
    I'll try to find time to do a search for your area, but you'll probably have better luck, since you know your area better. I'm not in the US, and geography is not my strong point, so I'd probably end up finding someone great, 3 hours away from you. ;)

    Do your research, make sure they're licensed animal behaviorists, ask a lot of questions.

    Usually the first thing I'd recommend in a case like yours is that you neuter your dog, but he's already neutered, so this is all behavior which needs to be modified. It's not as easy as some people think it is. You can easily make it worse if you do the wrong thing, or follow the wrong advice.

    When you're looking for a behaviorist you want someone that won't punish the dog, someone that uses positive reinforcement, someone that understands dog behavior, and dog hierarchy. Make a list of questions to ask when you find a potential behaviorist, ask how they treat the dog, what their protocol is for correcting unwanted behavior, etc.

    Most of all I want to say that you're a breath of fresh air. You obviously love your dog very much, and you're willing to do what it takes to make him a good member of society. I commend you for that. Too many people want an easy fix that's not possible. Not many are willing to put in the time and effort. You're a breath of fresh air.

    Please keep me posted on how it's going.
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    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #11

    Sep 17, 2013, 04:54 PM
    Oh stop your making me blush :) but no I will do some looking around and I definitely thank you for the advice and will put it to the test. Your right too, most people I talk to about him just say that's how he is and I have to get use to it, when I know he can be so much better. Thanks again hopefully I can get my boy on track to having manners.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #12

    Sep 17, 2013, 05:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    Oh stop your making me blush :) but no I will do some looking around and I definitely thank you for the advice and will put it to the test. Your right too, most people I talk to about him just say thats how he is and I have to get use to it, when I know he can be so much better. Thanks again hopefully I can get my boy on track to having manners.
    You have the drive, you have the right attitude, so you can do it. There are dogs that are naturally aggressive, but most dogs can be trained to behave and have manners. It's just a matter of finding what works for your specific dog.

    Until you've exhausted every resource, your friends can't say that's just how he is. They don't know. It's like saying that a child with ADHD is just the way he is, without trying to help him be more. It's like saying that someone with cancer is going to die, without trying anything to cure him/her of the cancer.

    You may not find the solution right away, you may have to research, and go through many trials before you find something that works, but giving up isn't an option until you've exhausted every resource that's available. You've just started looking at resources to help. You're at the beginning, and you have the drive and the desire to keep searching until you find what works. :)
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    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #13

    Sep 27, 2013, 01:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alty View Post
    You have the drive, you have the right attitude, so you can do it. There are dogs that are naturally aggressive, but most dogs can be trained to behave and have manners. It's just a matter of finding what works for your specific dog.

    Until you've exhausted every resource, your friends can't say that's just how he is. They don't know. It's like saying that a child with ADHD is just the way he is, without trying to help him be more. It's like saying that someone with cancer is going to die, without trying anything to cure him/her of the cancer.

    You may not find the solution right away, you may have to research, and go through many trials before you find something that works, but giving up isn't an option until you've exhausted every resource that's available. You've just started looking at resources to help. You're at the beginning, and you have the drive and the desire to keep searching until you find what works. :)
    Update

    I have talked to a lady but she stated that it was too far of a distance to help. But that she would help if I could not find anyone else. She seemed to know how to help but just didn't want to do the distance (it would be like a 45 min drive to her).

    Another lady said she thinks its because I have a dominance issue and that my dog thinks he is the leader of the pack. I agree with her partially because he listens to me but he's just stubborn. She said she can help and she would be able to meet me at my place but the charge would be 40$/hr I don't know what's reasonable so what do you think? Also this lady was the one recommended by my local vet. The other one had the highest reviews that I found online.

    What's your opinion I don't know which one I should go for I like the second lady but she will not come to my apartment and it would be a far drive. I don't know what her price would be but the second lady I don't know I'm iffy on her.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #14

    Sep 27, 2013, 03:08 PM
    I really wish I could give you advice on this. I'd love to review them both, and then I could give you an opinion, but based on what you said, I really can't tell you which one I think would be better.

    I don't trust things I find online. I will say that. Yes, I realize that I'm online, that's how we met, and I'm giving you advice, but I know my advice, I know my expertise, I also know that much of what you find online, isn't accurate.

    So, having said that, if I can't review their credentials, I'd go with the one your vet recommended.

    Also $40/hr for a licensed animal behaviorist, is very reasonable.
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    Biggiesmallsbig Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #15

    Sep 28, 2013, 09:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alty View Post
    I really wish I could give you advice on this. I'd love to review them both, and then I could give you an opinion, but based on what you said, I really can't tell you which one I think would be better.

    I don't trust things I find online. I will say that. Yes, I realize that I'm online, that's how we met, and I'm giving you advice, but I know my advice, I know my expertise, I also know that much of what you find online, isn't accurate.

    So, having said that, if I can't review their credentials, I'd go with the one your vet recommended.

    Also $40/hr for a licensed animal behaviorist, is very reasonable.
    Ok I'll get in touch with her and try to set something up. It may take a while to do so and give feedback but I'll get it done :) (I'm moving to a new position at work and having severe car problems so I'm busy busy lately) Thanks again! And wish me luck :)
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #16

    Sep 29, 2013, 03:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggiesmallsbig View Post
    Ok I'll get in touch with her and try to set something up. It may take a while to do so and give feedback but I'll get it done :) (I'm moving to a new position at work and having severe car problems so I'm busy busy lately) Thanks again! and wish me luck :)
    I wish you all the best of luck, and please, do keep me posted, even if months go by. I'll be here. :)

    This is a free site, but we animal experts do have a fee. Pictures of your pup! Pretty please? We love to see pictures.
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    #17

    Oct 17, 2013, 09:09 PM
    I've had recent financial troubles (my car went poop) so before when I could afford the trainer now I'm fighting to afford food. This is not to make excuses it is to explain why I took it into my own hands. There is a very nice dog park about 30 minutes away from my apartment so when ever I get a chance I take mouse (my dog of coarse) there and I was hesitant to let him off his leash but as soon as I did he is almost the best behaved dog there! He got along from the smallest breeds the the biggest breeds. From crazy dogs to dogs that want nothing to do with him. From dogs that are months old to dogs that are REALLY old. Basically I've seen vast improvements there and at my apartment. So I am just keeping up with his socialization and training him persistantly while I'm there he just listens so well and people even are getting to know him there. We still have to work on it though cause we will hit a couple rough spots here and there but he is definitely a great dog I'm just happy that my first dog is a great best friend that I can offer such a life for and he gives great companionship.

    I'll keep you posted :)
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    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,317, Reputation: 5972
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    #18

    Oct 17, 2013, 09:21 PM
    OMG! What a sweetheart. I could just kiss him all over. He's a gorgeous dog.

    When you said that as soon as you took him off leash, it reminded me of my dog Indy. On leash he could show aggression to other dogs when on a walk. Off leash he was the best dog ever. The way I think of it is that the leash is like an umbilical chord. It attaches you to your dog. If you're not calm, cool, collected, in the right frame of mind, your dog sense that. Add the leash to that and that bond is even stronger. I often noticed that when we were walking, and a dog was approaching, I'd tense up. Instantly Indy would tense too. He's start to growl, his ears would go back. He was ready to defend me because he sensed I was nervous, or afraid. Off leash he didn't sense my feelings as much. He didn't feel the tightening of the hold I had on the leash.

    Off the leash he doesn't feel your tension as much as he does when he's on leash. So it's your nerves you may need to work on. Remaining calm, being the leader, not showing him that you're afraid he may attack. If he senses your fear, he'll attack because of your fear.
    LadySam's Avatar
    LadySam Posts: 1,589, Reputation: 322
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    #19

    Oct 18, 2013, 04:45 AM
    I just had to stop by and say, What a handsome dog, love his eyes.
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    #20

    Oct 19, 2013, 01:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by LadySam View Post
    I just had to stop by and say, What a handsome dog, love his eyes.
    Thank You :)

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