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    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jan 27, 2017, 06:32 AM
    Divorce or not?
    I have been married for 2 years and together overall for 7 years. For the past 2.5 years it's been a cycle of us having sex once every 30-45 days. I complain about it and ask about it he says I pressure him and force him (when I don't bring it up until I've had enough). I had tried lingerie, I've even been naked in front of him for him to say "oh baby you look hot we will do it later" when he said this I put my clothes on and asked why? He then got angry said that I made him feel like less of a man and I said are you kidding me you know you make me feel like I am not good enough and less of a woman!. we then made up again 2-3 months go by where we only have sex 2 maybe 3 times and the cycle goes on. In January I threatened with either counseling or divorce because I can't live like this for the rest of my life. We have no kids, but we own a home together. He said he didn't like a few things I did such as going out with my girlfriends (which I do one or twice a month) and come back at midnight or so. That I dress revealing when I go to the gym. Which I wear yoga pants (I am very curvy) and a tank top or a tight shirt but never revealing. He also said that he was watching porn a lot and that he would stop. I have asked in the past for us to watch porn together but he refuses. I find these all to be excuses. If he wasn't home all the time I would've thought he was cheating on me but I can say that I am 99.9% sure that he is not cheating. I am afraid that he will never change this has been going on for over 2 years now. He promised he'd change and I said I wouldn't go out as late w girlfriends and that I was unsure about what to do w gym clothes but I'd figure it out. I have an appointment with a divorce lawyer on Tuesday I want to get educated on the process. But, I am really torn I don't know what to do. Otherwise he is a great guy but it feels sometimes like we are cuddly/loving roommates. Please help. Thank you in advance.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #2

    Jan 27, 2017, 06:46 AM
    Have you all investigated a potential medical reason pointing towards a lower sex drive? It might be worth looking into.

    The subject has become volatile between you two and that doesn't make it any easier. Guys don't like talking about it, tempers flare, and boom you both are upset. Maybe fixing the communication will lead to other pluses in the relationship.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jan 27, 2017, 06:54 AM
    I forgot to mention that I begged him to get his testosterone checked he did and it's fine. At one point I was even more hurt and upset because he was masturbating 2-3 times a week and we still weren't having sex. I told him you have substituted porn for me you'd rather have an emotional connection to porn than to me? It's like you love me so much that you hate me or resent me to not want to have sex w me?? He always blames me and says I force him to have sex which I won't ask or nag about it until a month or so. Bc it's just not normal. I have begged for therapy which he says he doesn't need nor do "we" need counseling.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #4

    Jan 27, 2017, 06:58 AM
    I think that the lack of sex is but a symptom of a greater problem in this marriage. I agree with the suggestion that learning how to better communicate with each other will go a long way to identify and resolve whatever the bigger issue is. Just cuious to know besides the lack of sex, what are the other areas of this marriage like? Why no children after 7 years, and how old are you both, as well as how are your finances and where are you both in your careers?
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jan 27, 2017, 07:07 AM
    In all honesty I have been waiting on him for kids. I wish we would've had kids 2 years ago which we did speak about when we got married we would start. That never happened. Then we spoke about it again when we buy a house we will start that didn't happen in oct/nov we will start and we never had sex it's like excuses from him all the time. I am 36 he will be 39. At this point I am afraid to waste more time and I am afraid I will end up never having kids waiting on him. He is a hypochondriac/anxiety ridden person (those are his words). I am afraid that this is just a cycle of wasting more time. Our marriage is loving in a sense that we are great in every aspect except when it comes to him hanging out w me and my friends/couples/dinner parties he just won't go. But when it's his friends and family he is fine and social and great. Also the lack of sex is a huge thing for me but not for him. I also sometimes feel like he doesn't take me seriously. In beginning of January I said to him this was the last time I would fight about this topic and that I would not continue waiting and then regret never having children I will not allow that to happen. He has made promises he'd change and he hasn't. I have I stopped going out as much where my friends and I would meet once a week I cut it down to 1-2 a month. I would wear cute dresses in summer now I wear cute long dresses to please him. And I just don't see continuous effort from his part he changes for 2-3 weeks then goes back to being "himself". I am torn again because he does have good qualities but I am afraid to waste more time.

    We have good careers in education making 80,000 each, a hbeautiful home, further our education. I want children he says he does as well but we don't have sex so that's a problem right there I'm so lost. This is not what we agreed on prior to marriage.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #6

    Jan 27, 2017, 07:53 AM
    Thank you for the added information, it does give a better picture but while I digest this a bit have you considered individual counseling? It may help you focus better, and give you a fresh perspective on how to approach him, or make decisions based on facts and not just feelings. I will say I think it's a bad idea to frustrate yourself by changing what you enjoy doing in the hopes that he changes.

    Even you have acknowledged that strategy has not worked. Be aware though that I am not ready to concede you are without your own flaws, and all due respect but my experience tells me that it's seldom just a one sided thing that upsets the apple cart in a marriage. I would love his version though that may be unlikely.

    Obviously he doesn't want kids, for whatever reasons, but as long as you are distracted by the lack of sex, which I see as a lack of bonding and shared interests and long term goals, then you may miss the OBVIOUS FACT of his lack of seeking any help on his part to reconcile or properly address the differences between you both.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jan 27, 2017, 09:59 AM
    He says that he feels like he walks on eggshells that he does everything for me and I always complaining about sex and I make him feel bad because I complain. I complain when weeks turn into months and I don't feel wanted or sexy and or close/ connected to him. He says he hates that I go out, he dislikes that I go to the gym all the time (I got 5-6 a week for an hour) , I lost about 25lbs since we met and I think that makes him feel insecure but I always ask for him to come to the gym w me he never does. I have my flaws definitely but I don't think it's enough to stop wanting to have sex with me? I don't know I'm unsure. He always says I pressured him to move out of his moms house maybe it stems from there? He brought up the reason why he doesn't want to watch porn w me is because I said something in 2009 - we were watching porn together and the screen went idle as I was going down on Him he proceeded to get the laptop off idle mode and I got upset and told him to finish w the porn. That was 2009! I did go to therapy by myself and asked him to come he didn't want to I got him to come once and the therapist asked us to come a second time he refused to go because he said the therapist was a woman and biased against him because she told him he needed to put effort and that he should fix himself through therapy as well because in therapy he said he felt pressured and forced to move out of his moms house while we were engaged. It seems like nothing has ever been "natural" with us it's always me complaining about why he couldn't move in if we were engaged 33 and 35 year old adults. I broke up with him around that time 4 years ago because of the same reason how he didn't move in and he begged me to take him back that he'd move in and we would be okay and he loved me so much that's been the pattern I complain and complain and complain then things happen. And I'm just so tired of it. I complain for things that SHOULD be natural that he says he wants but then says I force him. I told him if he felt forced why did we get this far he should've left me a long time ago but he said it's because he loves me so much. He always says that he does everything for me, I said you should do everything for US. Because if you just for me you'll resent me. Things should be for US. Then he took it back and said yes I do everything for us because I love you. I'm just overwhelmed w confusion and afraid to lose more time maybe it should have completely ended 4 years ago.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #8

    Jan 27, 2017, 11:03 AM
    Where is his father? Has he ever stood up to you? Ask him if he will go to a male therapist either alone or together.

    he said he felt pressured and forced to move out of his moms house while we were engaged. It seems like nothing has ever been "natural" with us it's always me complaining about why he couldn't move in if we were engaged 33 and 35 year old adults. I broke up with him around that time 4 years ago because of the same reason how he didn't move in and he begged me to take him back that he'd move in and we would be okay and he loved me so much that's been the pattern I complain and complain and complain then things happen. And I'm just so tired of it. I complain for things that SHOULD be natural that he says he wants but then says I force him. I told him if he felt forced why did we get this far he should've left me a long time ago
    I could be wrong but my impression is you are driven and demanding, which is a great thing with a guy who can handle you, but the skwuch you decided to marry is overwhelmed and helpless. If you don't have a few years to see if he can catch up then of course a divorce is sure to happen. You don't even seem compatible and no wonder the natural bonding process doesn't seem to work. I doubt if you ever properly communicated.

    You are married in mind only but he is still just dating a roommate. Sorry if I sound harsh.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jan 27, 2017, 11:31 AM
    His parents are divorced. My theory is that he was his mother pseudo husband dad cheated on his mom and he had to be the "man of the household" at 20. He has stood up to me and we have communicated and came to a compromise and he never keeps his end. I am very driven while I am "waiting" to have children I decided to go back to school and get the highest level of education I can achieve I am one class shy of completing this goal. I am not demanding- he is demanding. We bought our house in September he has been very demanding with where/what/how and I don't really put up a fight. I am only demanding when I don't see things changing things that we spoke about that he promised. Like how he said "I promise we will have kids we will start in November" we didn't have sex the whole month of November I have been nice about it "baby please I want to be intimate with you I need you I love you" and then I've been nasty about it "why aren't we having sex? Do you not want me??? I don't get it? Is porn enough for you!?" Neither has given me any type of result. Not till I threatened divorce then a few days later we did have sex but I resent him I have to threaten and complain for him to want to have sex with me that's terrible he should want to!
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #10

    Jan 27, 2017, 11:34 AM
    You two are way passed where you can have a meaningful and civil conversation about this subject. If there is any hope to fix your relationship, you might want to consider a third party mediator. Every time you discuss this it ends up ugly so what is the point.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Jan 27, 2017, 11:39 AM
    And no he has told me many times he doesn't need therapy that we don't need therapy. He even said that he would go and then cancelled last minute. I also said in beginning of January- either counseling or divorce he said no counseling that we would be fine.

    I had his mother mediate us- he said the same thing he was watching porn he did t like that I went out didn't like that I spent a lot of time at the gym and not at home. His mom said we should be having sex 2-3 times a week new house no children. She questioned him as to whether he loved me or not he said he loved me with all of his heart he would quit watching porn and wanted me to not go out and be home w him.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jan 27, 2017, 11:56 AM
    And the reason why I asked his mom to mediate us because I don't know where or who to turn to anymore. I felt that his mom was best because maybe he'll listen to her? also I want her to know that I've tried and I'm almost at the edge. And I'm afraid and confused as to what steps to take next.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #13

    Jan 27, 2017, 12:49 PM
    You threatened divorce and he said 'no, we will be fine?'
    For some reason that strikes me as sad in a wimpy way - on your part.
    When you deliver an ultimatum, you are supposed to mean it. Clearly you don't.
    YOU need to get your own emotions and possible next steps in order. He isn't going to budge. He isn't going to change, he isn't going to get help, he doesn't want to talk, he believes all is fine.
    You can tell us one anecdote after another, but why?
    This is all on you now.
    Either you:
    Live with what you have
    Do that, plus have a lover
    See a therapist alone (that's what I would do)
    Start the divorce, with full intention of following through, complete with who gets to live in the house.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jan 27, 2017, 12:55 PM
    Wow, you are absolutely right. No wonder why he doesn't take me seriously. He doesn't take me seriously at all. I am just afraid, why I'm not really sure why. I love him I just didn't want to fail I wanted to fight for love. I have told my parents everything they advised me to get a divorce or to work things out and live with what he can only give and that's it. I have a therapy set up for myself I told him about it he didn't say a word about it. I have a divorce lawyer apt set up for Tuesday I did not say anything to him about that. The worst thing of the matter is that he thinks everything is great. He really does think everything is great meanwhile I was depressed for two days and he kept asking me why till I said I don't trust you'll change we have discussed this topic 10 times before in the past two years with no real change what's to say you'll change this time around and he promised me he would change and everything would be great.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #15

    Jan 27, 2017, 01:00 PM
    I doubt that he thinks everything is great. He sounds like the stereotype of the bottled up man who won't express himself, and probably couldn't if he wanted to.
    I suspect that he's terrified of you seeing a therapist.
    I suspect that he suspects that a lawyer is in the works too....

    He may change his mind about therapy ON HIS OWN. Keep doing what you are doing. He has to act on his own volition. Or not, of course. I could be wrong.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Jan 27, 2017, 01:03 PM
    And, not that it justifies me being wimpy but he changes for a bit to the man I'd love to have and then changes back to who he is. Right now since the "threats" we've had sex twice and I know deep in my heart it's only because I complained and threatened. He is even going to go to a surprise birthday party w my tomorrow night, just crazy, things he should do as a husband... I know it won't last even though he says it will.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #17

    Jan 27, 2017, 01:21 PM
    Individual therapy and couples counseling are very different. It will be good for you to get help making decisions. Not just about him, but about kids!
    Couples counseling is training in how to communicate, not someone taking sides. At least that's how the good ones operate.
    If he ever does get to that agreement, shop around first, and ask what their approach is. I would not go together to the same therapist you see alone. That turns you and the therapist into being in cahoots against him, even if not true.

    The only couple I have known to have counseling were told to make trades, as well as taught how to talk to each other.
    She didn't want to have much sex, he did. So... they traded! From a list of items, written down.
    Sounds crazy but it can make sense in a marriage. As years and years go by, it really is about compromise, and 'trades' are just a different way of saying that.

    It could start out with something as simple as 'sex once a week in trade for no asking for it, and no mention of porn.'
    Then it can get more funny, hopefully.
    A huge hug and a smooch while you are doing some chore, in trade for a poem about how he reminds you of your favorite celebrity, living or not....
    DoulaLC's Avatar
    DoulaLC Posts: 10,488, Reputation: 1952
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    #18

    Jan 27, 2017, 03:26 PM
    I'd go to the counseling on your own if you feel it is helpful. Ask him if he truly feels everything is great between you. Let him know that you have great concerns in some areas, and that as a married couple, it has to fall on both of you to work together to make improvements.

    Perhaps he is actually afraid about having children, or has changed his mind, but doesn't want to admit it.

    At 36, while pregnancy does still occur, the odds will start to decline over the next few years. This might cause you to set a time limit for change.

    You are wise to see the lawyer to learn what would be involved and how to be prepared should you ultimately make that decision. Maybe a trial separation would be a consideration to break the cycle the two of you have found yourselves in, and allow for a fresh viewpoint.

    Keep in mind that old ways take time to change. Acknowledge his efforts, even if it seems like two steps forward, one step back.

    Communicate often and freely. Try not to be overlying sensitive, anticipating ways that he doesn't meet your expectations. It can be easy to become hyper aware of what you may see as flaws or proof of his lack of concern, engagement, or effort.

    Put sex off the table for now. You are currently seeing it as something he should be doing which causes him to see it as pressure to perform. Plan dates, time together, rebuilding the connection without sexual expectations. Put the focus on communication, fun, and just enjoying each other.

    Hopefully you will see some positive changes over the next few months as you both alter your perceptions.
    Confused36's Avatar
    Confused36 Posts: 25, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Mar 5, 2017, 07:19 PM
    We have both been on a good path. After about a week of arguing and then finally listening to each other. He has acknowledged his faults as I have acknowledged mine. We have taken ownership of our faults and taken steps to do better and have done better. We are now averaging sex 1-2 a week. I have been seeing the therapist on my own for about a month now 5 sessions. Last night he said he wanted to go to the next session with me which is on Tuesday.
    Today we were cleaning our home together and he made a comment which bothered me so much- he said in a year or two we will start to try to have a baby- I said what? I'm going to be 38 by then, please be honest with me have you changed your mind about having kids? Because if you have then we aren't on the right path and maybe we aren't for each other.
    It seems like it's ALWAYS an excuse with him. He had said after a year of marriage we agreed to start having kids- that obviously didn't happen. Then after we buy a house we bought the house and then we don't have sex, now it's we are doing good having sex but he has never and he never finished inside of me which leads me to believe that he doesn't want to have kids. I told him I feel like you just lead me on like you don't want me to leave but you don't want to have the same goals as I do I just don't understand him. I'm always at a loss with him. I don't get it. He says he swears he wants to have a kid with me I told him I don't believe him. I truly don't believe him because it's always an excuse always something. My gut just feels like we will never have a kid and that I'm wasting my time. I just don't understand.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #20

    Mar 6, 2017, 04:09 AM
    Hi again! Seems like ages ago that you were here. It's nice that you are reporting back, and have some good news.
    I wouldn't take him to see your therapist with you without prior arrangement. It isn't always a good idea, unless it's just to explain the therapist role of support and guidance on how to identify and handle problems, not to gang up on anyone. Going together opens up too many ways to get embroiled in trying to get a therapist to take sides. Is the therapist trained in couples counseling, which is very different? You are taught how to talk, and how to compromise, and how to 'see' problems, not do therapy, and NO taking sides. Sometimes a therapist will see each spouse alone and together, but I wouldn't.

    I can't pretend to know you at all. We can only go by what you write. To me, you seem to be a mixture of direct demands (complaints) and passive waiting for direct compliance from him. This subject of having a child is a good example. He brought up the subject while you were cleaning, and you got upset (reasonably, given how oblivious he is to your age). But this is a subject that needs to be discussed at a time of no distractions, and with careful thought, such as when you are going to sleep, or a quiet Sunday morning. Or you stop cleaning and sit down and start some genuine discussion. You are as complicit as he is in not handling problems. You met in your 30s and YOU needed to have your priorities all clear about children. You complained your way to everything, even living together. Why did you get married? One big reason to get married is to have a legal responsibility for children. You wanted children from the beginning, but kept complaining about his passive reluctance about everything. Now you are almost too late, and yet you just say that you don't believe him, and are asking US about divorce. At your age, I would say 'I start trying to get pregnant now because of my age, or I leave, no matter how much I love you.' You are letting him run the show with inaction, instead of initiating productive conversation.

    Like I said before, a lot of this involves trades. The 'correct' term is compromise with a polite and communicative sound to it, but it's still trade.
    So if a baby is very important to you, you put it at the top of your trade list. Keep in mind that it's a gamble - if he has to force himself to have sex with you over masturbating to porn, he might totally revert after you are a 'mom.' He probably doesn't even know how he will be.
    And just so this doesn't all slip right on by you, start investigating adoption. Lots and lots of orphans all over the world.

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