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    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #1

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:04 AM
    Suicide
    Hello:

    Now don't go getting all soppy on me. I ain't about to cash in my chips any time soon.

    However, I DO want to be the one who decides when the time is right. Why shouldn't I be able to?

    I'm talking about doing this when my body tells me it's time, not because I'm depressed. Or, is there a difference? I don't want to suffer. I don't want to be a burden on anybody. I don't want to be a shell who needs his butt wiped. Is it fair to NOT want those things?

    I'm not interested too much in what your religion has to say on the matter. I want to know what YOU think. After all, you my friends, are the ones I'm asking.

    excon
    Emland's Avatar
    Emland Posts: 2,468, Reputation: 496
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    #2

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:13 AM
    I agree with you excon. I watched my grandmother wither away. Her mind was gone years before her body. I don't want to outlive my intellect and would like to go in dignity. I would rather people remember me as a vibrant person rather than a scary old woman. I don't fear getting old. I just don't want to be a burden and when the body and wit run out I want to check out quietly, on my own terms.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #3

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    I'm talking about doing this when my body tells me it's time, not because I'm depressed. Or, is there a difference?
    I think that where the problem lies. Whilst I agree with everything you say how will one know that THIS is the moment to go versus simply being in a temporary depression. Living wills already exist but mostly dealt with a person being mechanically assisted with life's vitals and, if the mechanical component were removed there is a very low percentage of recovery. But I don't think that's what you are talking about. I've heard that if you hit that late life stage, you're very ill and you've made peace with the fact that you've had a good life and it's time to kick the bucket, if you've decided psychologically not to fight whatever is ravaging your body then death will come on its own.
    retsoksirhc's Avatar
    retsoksirhc Posts: 912, Reputation: 71
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    #4

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:25 AM
    I can't help but think of something I read once. I don't remember who it was about, or where it was (though I'm pretty sure it was on the internet), but basically, this guy committed suicide, and left a note. The note said something to the effect of "I'm sorry to those of you who will miss me, but I got bored with life, and I was curious about what comes afterwards. So long." I'm sure that's far from what he actually said, but it had the same idea.
    CaptainRich's Avatar
    CaptainRich Posts: 4,488, Reputation: 537
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    #5

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:28 AM
    Living wills can be useful.
    You could go a step further:
    I'm DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) as well.
    In other words, if I'm not going to be around, I don't want to be around.
    Period.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #6

    Sep 6, 2007, 08:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    I think that where the problem lies. Whilst I agree with everything you say how will one know that THIS is the moment to go versus simply being in a temporary depression.
    Hello again, Need:

    Well, of course, that's the question. However, I'm sure that when I'm contemplating it, I'm not going to be all bubbly. Even having had a great life, I think that facing the end game with a deteriorating body is going to be a little depressing in its own right, isn't it? And, wouldn't that be normal, instead of what you call "temporary"?

    Here's what brought this up. I get leg cramps now and then. It ain't nothing now. I just get up and stretch a little bit. Then I got to imagining what it would be like if I couldn't get up and I couldn't tell anybody. Dude! That would suck.

    excon
    CaptainRich's Avatar
    CaptainRich Posts: 4,488, Reputation: 537
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    #7

    Sep 6, 2007, 12:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainRich
    Living wills can be usefull.
    You could go a step further:
    I'm DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) as well.
    In other words, if I'm not going to be around, I don't want to be around.
    Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Those are TOO late
    What if you're crossing Main St, USA, and get struck by a Greyhound?
    Busted into pieces but LifeFlighted to the nearest trauma center?
    If you're so badly broken you can't speak, a DNR needs to be in place.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #8

    Sep 6, 2007, 12:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainRich
    If you're so badly broken you can't speak, a DNR needs to be in place.
    Hello again, Capn:

    Argghh. Good point.

    excon
    CaptainRich's Avatar
    CaptainRich Posts: 4,488, Reputation: 537
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    #9

    Sep 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello again, Capn:

    Argghh. Good point.

    excon
    Aye... and Aarrr!
    Vorlon007's Avatar
    Vorlon007 Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Sep 8, 2007, 07:10 AM
    You should be able to decide when you die. I'm thinking about doing it right now - well, in about two hours - because I've put it off for too long and I've got nothing to live for. Too many times in the past I've held off termination because of the pain and suffering it would cause those who love me, but I realized that they'll get over it. And if they don't, well, they should. They all expect me to do this, it will come as no surprise, in fact several people will be able to say "told you so." More power to them. Thing is, I'm the one who is tired of slugging it out day after day, miserable to the core, everything I love is now dead and gone, and it's about time I joined them. However, I'm pretty gutless and I now know that for some, it takes a great deal of courage to do oneself in. More bravery than it takes to live. Plus, there's always the argument of "on a planet with an unsustainable population of over 6 billion and increasing, any efforts to reduce this number is commendable. We must start putting animals in danger of extinction way before human life and I'll be first in line to help that. When there are only 2000 red pandas (I'm just guessing) alive, and over 6 billion humans, what is more precious? Greedy, self serving humans? No, we would do well to cull this herd however we can. I'm going to do my bit.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #11

    Sep 8, 2007, 07:19 AM
    Hello V:

    Ahhh. So, you're going to commit suicide for the sake of the planet... I got it. Well, dude - one less human ain't going to do it.

    And, I see that you're not going to do it because you're done, either. You're going to do it because you're too chicken to face life. K, dude - later. I'm not your therapist.

    excon
    CaptainRich's Avatar
    CaptainRich Posts: 4,488, Reputation: 537
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    #12

    Sep 8, 2007, 07:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello V:

    Ahhh. So, you're going to commit suicide for the sake of the planet... I got it. Well, dude - one less human ain't gonna do it.

    And, I see that you're not gonna do it because you're done, either. You're gonna do it because you're too chicken to face life. K, dude - later. I'm not your therapist.

    excon
    Absolutely!

    We're clearly talking about two distinctly separate issues now.
    arigi14's Avatar
    arigi14 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Sep 11, 2007, 10:29 AM
    I can dig on that. My grandma is seventy-four and still wiping her own butt as far as I know, and living on her own quite well. I could see skydiving at age eight-six though. I think I would need to be pushed out though. Assisted suicide??
    MrPippin's Avatar
    MrPippin Posts: 87, Reputation: 17
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    #14

    Sep 13, 2007, 07:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello:
    I'm talking about doing this when my body tells me it's time, not because I'm depressed. Or, is there a difference? I don't want to suffer. I don't want to be a burden on anybody. I don't want to be a shell who needs his butt wiped. Is it fair to NOT want those things?
    What if you have a disease such as diabetes or something similar that requires you to take medication such as insulin or you will die. What if you wake up one day and say "Im tired of feeling like this and I am going to let my body do what it has been trying to do for 30 years... die! If you stop taking the medication you need to live, is that suicide? Here unlike excon, I would be interested in both your personal and religious feelings.
    Emland's Avatar
    Emland Posts: 2,468, Reputation: 496
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    #15

    Sep 13, 2007, 07:37 AM
    I don't have any religious complications, so I can make an easy pass on that one.

    I think if I got to the point where I was ready to go, I would stop the medication and just let nature take its course. My mother has been battling NH Lymphoma and her life is basically going from one treatment to another with blood draws for the coumadin treatment in between. My mom is one of those who loves to go to the doctor and lives to tell you about her ailments, so the treatment isn't bothersome to her. The side affects are getting bad, but she keeps on keeping on. Me? As long as my kids are old enough to take care of themselves, I would just let nature take its course and not let my body be a pincushion or chemical dump if it turned out to be a non-curable form of cancer, etc. I would go through with it if there was a reasonable chance of recovery, though.

    I guess it is easier to say now. I am a reasonably healthy, active adult. I guess when I am faced with reality, I 'll have to see if I have the courage of my convictions.
    MrPippin's Avatar
    MrPippin Posts: 87, Reputation: 17
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    #16

    Sep 13, 2007, 08:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Emland
    I don't have any religious complications, so I can make an easy pass on that one.

    I guess it is easier to say now. I am a reasonably healthy, active adult. I guess when I am faced with reality, I 'll have to see if I have the courage of my convictions.
    That is sort of the boat I am in now. I always said if I got to the point where I would have to go on dialysis I would just let nature take its course. Now I am getting close to that point and I am wondering about the courage of my convictions. I am not what you would call a religious person as I don't really believe in religion, but I do believe in God and yes my beliefs are basically Christian, but most churches wouldn't be recognized by Christ, so I don't support a church. I know that if I stop taking insulin my body will go into keto-acidosis and I will die. I make zero insulin on my own, so the time line should be only a few days. Problem is that you feel like hell when you are in keto-acidosis, dehydrated, throbbing head pain etc. (I know this because it happened to me once). I wish I could get a doctor to prescribe medication that would ease the symptoms but let the job finish.
    Emland's Avatar
    Emland Posts: 2,468, Reputation: 496
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    #17

    Sep 13, 2007, 08:59 AM
    I have known people that live with diabetes and have been on dialysis for years. That keeps you able to be productive, does it not?

    I was told that diabetes would be waiting for me at menapause since I had it during pregnancy. Although the testing is an annoyance - I don't see it as being as bad as chemotherapy and radiation therapy.

    There's only one doctor that I know of that would be willing to help you, but I think he lost his ability to prescribe when he went to jail.
    CaptainRich's Avatar
    CaptainRich Posts: 4,488, Reputation: 537
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    #18

    Sep 13, 2007, 09:31 AM
    I recently read about a guy who had been on dialysis for nearly thirty years. Then one day, he said he got tired of pretending, voluntarily opted out of it, and less than a week later passed. My wife has been fighting cancer for six years now. Never quite in remission. They find it over here and nuke/chem it... then it's over there, morenuke/chem... now just chem...
    And tired, bitter. Struggling to the next appointment. Fighting to stay abouve the big dirt nap.
    It's her choice and I'm not sure how I'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot. Some times I think that the treatments keep you alive but the quality of your life is diminished.. or, you could stay stronger without treatment, and pass just a quiclkly. Nobody knows the answers. And I mean nobody.
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #19

    Sep 13, 2007, 10:13 AM
    Sorry to hear about your wife Capt.
    It does take a lot of courage to go on when no end is in sight.

    May she and you find peace... someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPippin
    That is sort of the boat I am in now. I always said if I got to the point where I would have to go on dialysis I would just let nature take its course. Now I am getting close to that point and I am wondering about the courage of my convictions. I am not what you would call a religious person as I don't really believe in religion, but I do believe in God and yes my beliefs are basically Christian, but most churches wouldn't be recognized by Christ, so I don't support a church. I know that if I stop taking insulin my body will go into keto-acidosis and I will die. I make zero insulin on my own, so the time line should be only a few days. Problem is that you feel like hell when you are in keto-acidosis, dehydrated, throbbing head pain etc. (I know this because it happened to me once). I wish I could get a doctor to prescribe medication that would ease the symptoms but let the job finish.
    I am sorry to hear about your diabetes, I can relate to your lifestyle being dependent on insulin, my mom is too.
    She has been on it for 20 or so years and she always says "even on my death bed I have to be thinking of my insulin injections".
    MrPippin's Avatar
    MrPippin Posts: 87, Reputation: 17
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    #20

    Sep 13, 2007, 10:32 AM
    I am turning 50 next month. I have been diabetic since the age of 12. If all it was, was taking insulin injections I would say "no problem". But it is all the other crap that sneaks up on you over that 40 years. Kidney disease, high blood pressure, eye disease, neuropathy, heart, cholesterol, etc, etc. Then it gets to the point that the drugs they are giving you are doing their own damage. Then you have to take another pill to fight the side effects of the first pill. Right now they tell me I am near renal failure (they shut down once already, but doctors were able to jump start them again), I have C.H.F. (Congestive Heart Failure) brought on by all the high blood pressure and water retention. I am not going to put a bullet to my head, (as I feel that would be taking my own life), but if I just let nature takes it's course... is that taking ones own life? Or am I leaving it up to God?

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