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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #1

    Jun 2, 2021, 05:01 AM
    Voter ID
    Of 47 nations surveyed ,all but one has adopted Voter ID requirements. The one exception is UK .But in UK Northern Ireland has voter ID and many localities require it . Boris Johnson has introduced legislation to bring the UK into the 21st century.

    Why Do Most Countries Require Photo Voter IDs?: They Have Seen Massive Vote Fraud Problems by John R. Lott :: SSRN


    But here in the US ,attempts at requiring voter ID are met with charges of racism. Are all the European nations also racists because they require ID's ?

    The survey also shows that 74% of the Euro nations ban absentee balloting domestically . 6% limit it to those hospitalized or in the military, and they require third-party verification and a photo voter ID. Another 15% require a photo ID for absentee voting.

    worldwide
    The Aussies are looser . They don't require photo ID to vote .But they do to register to vote . France banned mail in voting in 1975 because of massive fraud in Corsica, where postal ballots were stolen or bought and others were cast in the names of dead people. Mexico ;after an election was clearly stolen in 1991 ,mandated voter photo IDs with biometric information, banned absentee ballots, and required in person voter registration. Despite making registration much more difficult and banning absentee ballots.... despite all these restrictions ,voter participation rose in Mexico .There is no basis to the claim that verifying voters suppresses the vote.

    Likewise ,American states that instituted voter ID showed no significant differences in voter turn out .Instead ,Black and minority voter registration rates INCREASED faster than whites after states implemented voter ID requirements for registration.

    Riley-The_Myth_of_Voter_Suppression-Transcript.pdf (ctfassets.net)
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #2

    Jun 2, 2021, 06:24 AM
    Americans invent myths to justify their politics
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #3

    Jun 2, 2021, 10:03 AM
    Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history so why are you RW'ers still bleating that horse?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #4

    Jun 2, 2021, 12:29 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history so why are you RW'ers still bleating that horse?
    Simple. They can't win fairly by arguing their agenda, so they try to prevent people from voting as the only way they can win.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #5

    Jun 2, 2021, 01:09 PM
    Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history
    says you
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #6

    Jun 2, 2021, 01:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    says you
    Says every audit and recount that took place.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #7

    Jun 2, 2021, 04:23 PM
    Here read it and weep .

    The media keeps telling us two facts about elections R3.pdf (ssrn.com)
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #8

    Jun 2, 2021, 07:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I read it and I'm not weeping. Did you read it? All 172 pages? I doubt it.

    There is not a word - not a single word - about fraud in the United States. There is, however, 172 pages about the rules for voting in just about every single country in Europe, listed alphabetically, and Mexico. The rules cited are complete; i.e., pages and pages of every rule for every country, no matter how insignificant.

    Fraud in the US? Nada. Zero. Nothing. What are you trying to pull, tom?

    This is bad even for you, Tomder.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #9

    Jun 2, 2021, 10:42 PM
    Ostriches abound in the US
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #10

    Jun 3, 2021, 04:01 AM
    ID is required in so many other aspects of life. One has to wonder what the REAL fear of producing ID to vote is all about . Even with no solid proof of criminal fraud ;there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (and cases in New Jersey where it was proven )

    Come on you can be honest . It has nothing to do with suppressing the vote .Voter participation has never been higher ;even in states with the most stringent voter ID laws . So what is the REAL reason you object to voter ID ?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #11

    Jun 3, 2021, 04:15 AM
    Could it be they are afraid of honest elections?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #12

    Jun 3, 2021, 07:13 AM
    You wingers holler a lot about the sky falling and it never does, and how YOUR rights are being restricted, and they never are. Be a lot more credible if you weren't always trying to restrict everybody else's in the process. We've had nothing but fair honest elections and still you holler?

    You big spoiled cry babies! No wonder you're getting spanked.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #13

    Jun 3, 2021, 07:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Even with no solid proof of criminal fraud
    Keep telling yourself that.

    Voter participation has never been higher ;even in states with the most stringent voter ID laws . So what is the REAL reason you object to voter ID ?
    No solid evidence of fraud, participation has never been higher - your own words - so what is the REAL reason you want voter ID?

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #14

    Jun 3, 2021, 07:18 AM
    When Governors and the court system bypassed the law for what you call fair and honest they still bypass the legal process . Again why are you afraid of voters being required to show an ID before registering and voting ?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #15

    Jun 3, 2021, 07:28 AM
    Absence of "solid evidence " does not mean it doesn't happen . There are no meaningful prosecutions of litter laws ;and yet you know littering happens all the time. 7th Circus Court in Crawford v Marion County Election Board opined

    "But the absence of prosecutions is explained by the endemic under-enforcement of minor criminal laws (minor as they appear to the public and prosecutors, at all events) and by the extreme difficulty of apprehending a voter impersonator. He enters the polling places, gives a name that is not his own, votes, and leaves. If later it is discovered that the name he gave is that of a dead person, no one at the polling place will remember the face of the person who gave that name, and if someone did remember it, what would he do with the information?"
    When a crime is difficult to prove states still must take the steps necessary to ensure the integrity of the franchise . ....“take preventative action, as Indiana had done by requiring a photo ID.”

    That Indiana law has been in place for a decade and no one can argue voter suppression . So again ;why do you oppose sensible steps ? It has to be an agenda to allow ineligible people to vote .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #16

    Jun 3, 2021, 07:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    So again ;why do you oppose sensible steps ? It has to be an agenda to allow ineligible people to vote .
    Why do you support it? It has to be an agenda to prevent eligible voters from voting. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    What was the point of your posting a link to 172 pages of European voting procedures? Why did you imply it was about US fraud when it had nothing to do with US fraud? That kind of thing is why you are less than trustworthy.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #17

    Jun 3, 2021, 12:38 PM
    One Person, One Vote, One Application: District Court Decision in Ray v. Texas Upholds Texas Absentee Voting Law That Disenfranchises Elderly and Disabled Voters (american.edu)

    I understand the premise of your argument Tom, but we all know repubs are just setting up the mid terms and next national election cycle to gain back power of the government to cement the domination of states. Heck a number of you right wing loons are still trying to overturn the last election.

    Naw we can't talk about that though.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #18

    Jun 3, 2021, 04:04 PM
    nice job adding a link from 2009 . Texas Senate attempt to make common sense reforms(ie making it more difficult for dead people to vote....and making cheating more difficult ) were temporarily thwarted when the Dems walked out of the legislature.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 947, Reputation: 55
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    #19

    Jun 3, 2021, 05:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    nice job adding a link from 2009
    At least, the link was true. Your link was false.

    Texas Senate attempt to make common sense reforms(ie making it more difficult for dead people to vote....and making cheating more difficult ) were temporarily thwarted when the Dems walked out of the legislature.
    Here's more from that Republican bill that you left out:

    The bill empowers Republican (partisan) poll watchers more access inside polling places and threatens criminal penalties against elections officials who restrict their movement.

    A new provision could also make it easier to overturn an election in Texas, allowing for a judge to void an outcome if the number of fraudulent votes cast could change the result, regardless of whether it was proved that fraud affected the outcome.

    Officials would also face new criminal penalties, including felony charges for sending mail voting applications to people who did not request one.

    The bill prohibits Sunday voting before 1 p.m., which critics called an attack on what is commonly known as "souls to the polls" — a get-out-the-vote campaign used by Black church congregations nationwide. I believe this was dropped after the outrage it produced.

    It eliminates 24-hour polling centers, which Harris County, the state's largest Democratic stronghold, introduced last year.

    Around midnight, Republicans wielded their majority to suspend rules that would normally prohibit taking a vote on a bill that had not been posted for 24 hours, which Democrats protested as a breach of protocol that denied them and the public time to review the language first.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #20

    Jun 3, 2021, 06:59 PM
    Now that quid hasn't provided you with daily talking points, the debate has degenerated. You are concerned about polling times when there are greater issues

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