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    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 965, Reputation: 55
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    #1

    Mar 26, 2020, 04:17 AM
    Virus Brings Out Distinction Between Right and Left
    Fascinating!

    Considering the coronavirus, the right-wing keys on money costs, debt, taxes and nary a word about human beings getting sick, suffering and possibly dying. They even have the cruelty to label those poor unfortunates who died from taking Trump's advice "lunatics".

    The left keys on the human cost and attempts to pull out all stops to alleviate the suffering and dying. The left recognizes the material cost but wisely and compassionately realizes that those costs must, by necessity, be put off until the more important issues of life and death are settled.

    These conclusions are based on the thread about "Trump's First Kill". I recommend all viewers to carefully read that thread and compare the differing points of view.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #2

    Mar 26, 2020, 05:39 AM
    why cover the same ground twice
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #3

    Mar 26, 2020, 08:22 AM
    An interesting perspectives clashes for sure as the virus GROWS, and the death toll GROWS! Add to this the economic affects especially with the jobless figures reported at 3.28 million filing for unemployment, I see righties freaking out and honestly rightfully so, but the root cause of the raging health care crisis cannot and should not be ignored just for the fact it shows NO signs of slowing down and will overwhelm EVERYBODY'S health care system.

    I see no choice but to take the economic hit to control this thing, and worry about the other challenges later. The senate has passed the tide over package, but no illusions to how effective that will really be after it's finally implemented, nor should there be any illusions that a lot more will be needed.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #4

    Mar 26, 2020, 01:57 PM
    They even have the cruelty to label those poor unfortunates who died from taking Trump's advice "lunatics".
    any moron who ingests fish tank cleaner is a lunatic Go ahead with that idiotic narrative that he was following Trump's advice and then go and find the quote where Trump suggested someone WITHOUT the virus should take fish bowel cleaner as a remedy . Go on I am waiting . You sound more and more ridiculous by the day .

    I stand accused and am guilty . I think what is happening here is sheer folly and that is from someone in the high risk group who lives near ground zero and reports to work every day because my job has been deemed essential . Every day Dr David Katz is more convincing to me .
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/o...sultPosition=2
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 965, Reputation: 55
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    #5

    Mar 26, 2020, 03:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    any moron who ingests fish tank cleaner is a lunatic Go ahead with that idiotic narrative that he was following Trump's advice and then go and find the quote where Trump suggested someone WITHOUT the virus should take fish bowel cleaner as a remedy . Go on I am waiting
    I already posted it. See entry #1 in the thread "Trump's First Kill".

    Of course, you have changed what Trump said just enough to suit your bias. I'm not surprised.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #6

    Mar 26, 2020, 03:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    any moron who ingests fish tank cleaner is a lunatic Go ahead with that idiotic narrative that he was following Trump's advice and then go and find the quote where Trump suggested someone WITHOUT the virus should take fish bowel cleaner as a remedy . Go on I am waiting . You sound more and more ridiculous by the day .

    I stand accused and am guilty . I think what is happening here is sheer folly and that is from someone in the high risk group who lives near ground zero and reports to work every day because my job has been deemed essential . Every day Dr David Katz is more convincing to me .
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/o...sultPosition=2
    I suspect you will get plenty of this herd immunity opportunities just as things are with all those unknown, unverified, and untested citizens running around.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #7

    Mar 27, 2020, 05:25 AM
    my alternative post . NY STATE AND CITY OFFICIALS ARE COMPLICIT IN THE DEATHS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS AND THE SPREAD OF WUHAN VIRUS AROUND THE COUNTRY . not only did they not take steps to protect the people they encouraged NYers to take risks . NY City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot on Feb 2 urged NYers to spend as much time in crowded public places as possible . She told us the risk of infection is low .She specifically said we should take subways ,bus and to go to our favorite restaurants .Then she said don't miss the St Patty's Day parade . A couple days later they cancelled the parade.

    State Senator John Liu called those who were concerned racists . State Senator Brian Kavanaugh encouraged people to go to a festival in China town and scoffed at any potential risk .

    March 2 Mayor Sandinista Bill told NYers in a tweet to live their lives and" get out on the town";to see a movie called 'The Traitor ' (a movie about a detective that brings down Cosa Nostra in Italy) March 11, he told us that if we weren't sick we should just go about our lives . You may recall that the NBA suspended their season on the same day. Italy was already in a complete mandatory lock down . Deaths came shortly afterwards . Then DiCommio changed his tune and started to blame shift towards Trump and how he had neglected the city .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #8

    Mar 27, 2020, 07:15 AM
    You can make a strong case for states not being well prepared Tom, but still waiting for the supply side market solutions by well funded corporations and money suckers to meet demands that the pols dropped the ball on.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #9

    Mar 27, 2020, 01:35 PM
    it is coming in a remarkably swift manner .
    GM is retrofitting a plant as we speak , and will start making ventilators where they were making cars starting next week. A remarkably fast retooling of a production plant . Tesla is going to do the same . The real problem is the lack of a hospital ventilator industry here . Look at who makes them . In the US they are small companies . Most of our stock are made over seas . None of them have the capacity of GM to do what it is doing .

    It is happening all over the country . My Pillow retooled ands is now making surgical masks. . Even private crafters are buying supplies and making masks for hospitals
    Celebs are getting into the act

    https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/27/proje...s-coronavirus/

    Teva is donating 6 million doses of
    Hydroxychloroquine sulfate ;Sun Pharma is donating 2.5million doses . Bayer is donating 3 million doses of
    chloroquine .Breweries all over the country have retooled to make hand sanitizers .
    You know what would make it go even faster ? Onerous regulations could be relaxed . That is what happened when NY made the call to start clinical trials for the drug combination that Trump said shows promise (and no he did not encourage anyone to take fish tank cleaner ) .

    Look ,Trump has the power under the DPA if he chooses to use it . I applaud his restraint . You have ZERO assurances that supplied would be produced faster if he compelled companies to make these products .

    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,813, Reputation: 5431
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    #10

    Mar 27, 2020, 02:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    ...Trump said shows promise (and no he did not encourage anyone to take fish tank cleaner ) .
    Trump merely muttering the word "chloroquine" as a potential "gamechanger" was all it took for two of his disciples to swallow fish-tank cleaner that contains that drug.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #11

    Mar 27, 2020, 03:08 PM
    stupid is as stupid does . I'm not wasting any more time responding to this BS issue
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,348, Reputation: 156
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    #12

    Mar 27, 2020, 03:54 PM
    The left keys on the human cost and attempts to pull out all stops to alleviate the suffering and dying. The left recognizes the material cost but wisely and compassionately realizes that those costs must, by necessity, be put off until the more important issues of life and death are settled.
    What a self-serving pile of nonsense. Yeah, conservatives do tend to look at cost. Libs love to brag about how much they care about people until, of course, the time comes for them to actually pay for any of it. Then they run for cover.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #13

    Mar 27, 2020, 04:03 PM
    t
    he left keys on the human cost and attempts to pull out all stops to alleviate the suffering and dying.
    remember how the Dems approve the snuffing of over 600,000 babies a year but now act concerned about a couple thousand seniors who may die
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #14

    Mar 27, 2020, 04:06 PM
    but can't you see the difference, the question of the future and the past, the demonrats own nothing to the future and everything to the past
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #15

    Mar 28, 2020, 02:21 AM
    but still waiting for the supply side market solutions
    will post them as they come up .
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...avirus-efforts
    https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...Z8Nk91_53NrItg
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #16

    Mar 28, 2020, 02:58 AM
    From Dr Deborah Birx :

    "
    And the situation about ventilators. We are reassured in meeting with our colleagues in New York that there are still I.C.U. Beds remaining and still significant — over 1,000 or 2,000 ventilators that have not been utilized. Please for the reassurance of people around the world, to wake up this morning and look at people talking about creating DNR situations, Do Not Resuscitate situations for patients, there is no situation in the United States right now that warrants that kind of discussion. You can be thinking about it in the hospital. Certainly, hospitals talk about this on a daily basis, but to say that to the American people and make the implication that when they need a hospital bed it's not going to be there or a ventilator, it's not going to be there, we don't have evidence of that. "
    prior to that she said :
    "I'm going to say something that is a little bit complicated but do it in a way we can understand it together. In the model, either you have to have a large group of people who [are] a-asymptomatic, who never presented for any test to have the kind of numbers predicted. To get to 60 million people infected, you have to have a large group of a-symptomatics. We have not seen an attack rate over 1 in 1,000. So either we are measuring the iceberg and underneath it, are a large group of people. So we are working hard to get the antibody test and figure out who these people are and do they exist. Or we have the transmission completely wrong

    So these are the things we are looking at, because the predictions of the model don't match the reality on the ground in China, South Korea or Italy. We are five times the size of Italy. If we were Italy and did all those divisions, Italy should have close to 400,000 deaths. They are not close to achieving that.Models are models. We are — there is enough data of the real experience with the coronavirus on the ground to really make these predictions much more sound. So when people start talking about 20% of a population getting infected, it's very scary, but we don't have data that matches that based on our experience.


    It's our job collectively to assure the American people, it's our job to make sure that doesn't happen. You can see the cases are concentrated in highly urban areas and there are other parts of the states that have lots of ventilators and other parts of New York state that don't have any infected. We can meet the needs by being responsive."


    Everyone keeps talking about ventilators . But one could ask NY when considering their CONs ,do you have enough ICU trained nurses and respiratory therapy technicians who can operate these ventilators ? How's the supply of oxygen tanks ; lab technicians ? Do you have multiple changes of PPE gowning for them ?They get thrown away after use .Your ratio under these conditions is no more than 1 nurse for 2 patients. The proper procedure for gowning by an experiences nurse requires 10 minutes minimum and then removing and sanitizing the nurse probably as much time . For the technicians it is the same . Moisture gets in the tubing so that needs to be checked and replaced as needed . Blood samples need to be taken to check oxygen levels . Around the clock care for 30,000 patients would require a minimum of 45,000 trained critical care nurses . Who knows how many changes of PPE ? The ventilators ,the PPE all has to be produced . None of it is stock piled in any meaningful way. And I'll let you in on something . The workers at pharmaceutical and health care industries are also required to wear PPE . Maybe not as advanced as those in ICU . But close . I worked for a time in a sterile operation making prescription ophthalmics .From head to toe I was covered in PPE .Not any surface of the body exposed .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #17

    Mar 28, 2020, 05:16 AM
    It's a logistics nightmare of scope and scale we have never seen and playing catch up to a fast moving train makes it that much more challenging. All you can really do is roll up your sleeves and get busy. Glad the private sector is stepping up, and hope to see more of it, since they have as much stake in a positive timely outcome as any body.

    I think though we all would be better served with those daily WH briefings being more experts and less politicians.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #18

    Mar 28, 2020, 06:00 AM
    I could say the same about il Duce Cuomo's pressers . At least Trump has either Dr Birx or Dr Anthony Fauci at every presser. Say what you want about them .They are rating as high or better as many cable shows .The hate Trump networks are doing their audience a huge disservice by not covering them . I don't care if Rachel Madcow;black hole Don Lemon , or Fredo Cuomo mocks them afterwards .The audience deserves to hear them , I suspect they do since Fox ratings reflect the increase in viewership

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    jlisenbe Posts: 4,348, Reputation: 156
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    #19

    Mar 28, 2020, 06:09 AM
    Dr. Birx's comments were really interesting. If the attack ratio of the virus is actually 1/1,000, then it would seem we have over-reacted significantly.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #20

    Mar 28, 2020, 06:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I could say the same about il Duce Cuomo's pressers . At least Trump has either Dr Birx or Dr Anthony Fauci at every presser. Say what you want about them .They are rating as high or better as many cable shows .The hate Trump networks are doing their audience a huge disservice by not covering them . I don't care if Rachel Madcow;black hole Don Lemon , or Fredo Cuomo mocks them afterwards .The audience deserves to hear them , I suspect they do since Fox ratings reflect the increase in viewership

    Folks go where they get to hear what they want to hear I suppose. Conservatives love Fox, and everybody else goes elsewhere.

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