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    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #1

    Nov 30, 2016, 10:02 AM
    The TORTURE sweepstakes..
    Hello:

    On the island of Cuba, who won? The commies or the good ole US of A??

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #2

    Nov 30, 2016, 11:15 AM
    Clearly there is more to this question than what was asked. I'll play along . Fidel is on a flaming raft in Hades .But his murderous Orwellian jackbooted regime lives on .
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #3

    Nov 30, 2016, 03:43 PM
    Hello again, tom:

    Nahh.. Nothing funny going on.. Except, that it's kinda funny that on the island of Cuba BOTH America and the Communists TORTURED people.. As a patriotic American, I'm NOT surprised that the commies did it.

    excon
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,304, Reputation: 7691
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    #4

    Nov 30, 2016, 06:39 PM
    No one won. The people of Cuba has lived a terrible life and the US has refused to help because of their government, but they deal with other nations worst.
    ebaines's Avatar
    ebaines Posts: 12,130, Reputation: 1307
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    #5

    Dec 1, 2016, 10:17 AM
    False equivalence. I'm not a fan of what went on at Gitmo for a few years in the past, but the detainees were enemy combatants (i.e people intent on killing Americans and its allies). There is a huge distinction between what went on there and what Castro the tyrant did with political prisoners what were citizens of his own country.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,104, Reputation: 10852
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    #6

    Dec 1, 2016, 10:25 AM
    On the island of Cuba, who won?
    Raul is the WINNER.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,848, Reputation: 5428
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #7

    Dec 1, 2016, 10:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ebaines View Post
    There is a huge distinction between what went on [at Gitmo] and what Castro the tyrant did with political prisoners what were citizens of his own country.
    But unfortunately, being humane in either situation was not a consideration.
    earl237's Avatar
    earl237 Posts: 532, Reputation: 57
    Senior Member
     
    #8

    Dec 1, 2016, 01:42 PM
    Things haven't really changed that much for regular people in Cuba, it is still a communist dictatorship. Not sure who will take over after Raul Castro, but I don't expect them to embrace democracy, capitalism and equal rights anytime soon.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #9

    Dec 1, 2016, 06:38 PM
    No one wins from the continued destitution of the people of Cuba which is a direct result of outdated cold war policy, when the soviet empire crashed the sanctions should have ended. Now that Castro has gone there is even more reason to change the relationship, not double down as Dump will do
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #10

    Dec 2, 2016, 04:55 PM
    Cuba si (Raul ) Castro no ! There is no advantage to normalizing relations with a jackboot regime that has run out of patrons .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #11

    Dec 2, 2016, 05:17 PM
    There is every advantage in having normal relations with everyone, it does away with posturing for a start and allows a dialogue, and don't tell me there aren't trade benefits, you might even repatriate some of those pesky cubans
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #12

    Dec 3, 2016, 04:56 PM
    you might even repatriate some of those pesky Cubans
    The Cubans here are not pesky. They are freedom loving ,hard working people who contribute a lot . If you told me that normalization would benefit to the people of Cuba ;and not into the pockets of the regime of caudillos then I might consider it . But the truth is that the rest of the world has had so called normalization with the country ,and all it did was give a life line to the thugs . So my answer is that is not the way to affect change in the country .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #13

    Dec 3, 2016, 05:49 PM
    Tom the only way to overthrow a communist regime is prosperity. Doubling down on sanctions and making the people poorer doesn't do it. Eventually China will throw off its communist shackles just as Russia did but the process can be speeded up as the people are able to trade but to do that they must have goods, you go to China today and the malls are filled with up market label boutiques, the place looks like Europe. What does Cuba look like? The US must stop punishing Cuba for past mistakes, Russia was to blame for the missile crisis and it is time to forget it.

    You want an alternative to buying from China? establish the industries in Cuba, in Haiti and make your region prosperous.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #14

    Dec 4, 2016, 03:59 AM

    bwaaahaaaahaaahaaaa ! The Jeep carrying el jeffe's ashes broke down and had to be pushed the final part of the funeral procession.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #15

    Dec 4, 2016, 05:44 AM
    Making it a true procession, you could say it was the US sanctions that brought such an outcome but then it probably was made in Belarus or some backwoods European country where machinery lasts as long as you take it out of the box
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #16

    Dec 4, 2016, 08:26 AM
    you go to China today and the malls are filled with up market label boutiques, the place looks like Europe.
    Their economy is a Potemkin economy and you know it . China’s global economic leadership is a fable.China’s economic importance is falling ,not rising .Xi Jinping and Li Keqiangare are ushering in the most repressive government in the country since the Cultural Revolution...and that coincides with their economic decline. Russia just replaced one form of dictatorship with another ..an oil exporting oligarchy .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #17

    Dec 4, 2016, 02:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Their economy is a Potemkin economy and you know it . China’s global economic leadership is a fable.China’s economic importance is falling ,not rising .Xi Jinping and Li Keqiangare are ushering in the most repressive government in the country since the Cultural Revolution...and that coincides with their economic decline. Russia just replaced one form of dictatorship with another ..an oil exporting oligarchy .
    At least the goods they are buying in their malls and driving on their roads are locally made. You are so quick to condemn, OK the objectives of their leadership are questionable, but then so are the objectives of your own leadership and we will yet see whether Dump will become a dictator. You see the chinese as an aggressor but they are no more aggressive than yourselves. The problem is if you push China or Russia far enough there will be conflict. What we have are three powers who are paranoid, and with good reason but be careful of self fulfilling prophecies
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #18

    Dec 4, 2016, 02:40 PM
    yeah if we push them ...blame America 1st . In your world view we are headed towards a “Thucydides Trap” ;and we may well be . But it will be because the Chinese experiment is a failure ;and they are getting increasingly desperate .That is why they are flexing their muscle against their weaker neighbors.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #19

    Dec 4, 2016, 04:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    yeah if we push them ...blame America 1st . In your world view we are headed towards a “Thucydides Trap” ;and we may well be . But it will be because the Chinese experiment is a failure ;and they are getting increasingly desperate .That is why they are flexing their muscle against their weaker neighbors.
    You may be right, they may be trying to cover internal problems with externa lissues taking a page out of your rplaybook, but you cannot afford conflict with them it would wreck your economy.

    What is with this site and the space bar issue?

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