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    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #1

    Oct 11, 2017, 06:12 AM
    And they call america gun mad
    And hold us out as an example of control

    Police gun data shows extent of private arsenals in suburban Australia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    Now I notice that the anti gun lobby has fallen silent in the wake of Vegas, just in shock, I guess, but here in the bastion of gun control there are private arsenals and I wonder why, why does anyone need hundreds of guns? I mean even in the small city I live in there are 8,000 gun owners, that's the ones we know about and that represents 20% of the population and I say why, is the town overrun with wild pigs and kangaroos? Because there isn't much to shoot around here except people, crime rate is low and please don't tell me it is because of gun ownership, this statistic is unexpected
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Oct 11, 2017, 06:20 AM
    An unarmed populace is completely helpless in the face of oppression by any group bent upon imposing it. Many people understand that, and understand they have a god given civil right to defend themselves.

    In the USA we have a saying... "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

    Meaning 12 jurors ( American legal system) rather than 6 pallbearers.Name:  boxcars.jpg
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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #3

    Oct 11, 2017, 07:11 AM
    Well said by a guy of Euro descent whose people ran rather than fight... like so many immigrants to the USA (And migrants and refugees in general, who came here and did the same thing to the ones who were already here. You would have to be pretty paranoid to be worried about being rounded up and suppressed by the US government, unless you were black or brown. I digress as that's another thread...

    @Clete

    Why are you surprised that a few collectors and dealers AND enthusiasts have so many guns? Even in the wild west USA most of the guns are owned by a relative few (NOT counting criminals), but at least YOUR country knows who has what, and there is a database to draw from. Our cops are not allowed a shared national database. Maybe that's why cops here are in fear of their life and shoot to kill and ask questions later when they stop a black guy for a busted taillight.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #4

    Oct 11, 2017, 09:21 AM
    Tal, you haven't been paying much attention to where things have been heading oh, at LEAST the last 8 years... and the crap some of the extreme left wing wacko's have been pulling this last year, St. Louis, before that in Ferguson, and to a much lesser degree in Charlottesville (never got as out of hand there because if it spilled into residential areas they would have been massacred by the property owners).

    And well....the MALE side of my ancestry left because its on the historical record to what extremes England went to dealing with the Irish and the Scott's who stood up to them in the not that distant past. And well the Female side didn't fare much better in the Kaisers day.
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #5

    Oct 11, 2017, 09:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You would have to be pretty paranoid to be worried about being rounded up and suppressed by the US government, unless you were black or brown.
    Or a Branch Davidian, or a land use protestor, or married to a "separatist (meaning a guy who wants to be left alone)" and holding his baby, or a hidden camera journalist, or holding evidence against a prominent Democrat.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #6

    Oct 11, 2017, 12:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Tal, you haven't been paying much attention to where things have been heading oh, at LEAST the last 8 years... and the crap some of the extreme left wing wacko's have been pulling this last year, St. Louis, before that in Ferguson, and to a much lesser degree in Charlottesville (never got as out of hand there because if it spilled into residential areas they would have been massacred by the property owners).

    And well....the MALE side of my ancestry left because its on the historical record to what extremes England went to dealing with the Irish and the Scott's who stood up to them in the not that distant past. And well the Female side didn't fare much better in the Kaisers day.
    I didn't want to hijack the thread with a new subject, sorry 'bout that Clete, but since you chimed in Smoothy...

    The history of man's migration is littered with oppression and violence, obviously a motive for you also. Glad you found a safe place to run and thrive, so have empathy for those that don't have means and resources but must escape lousy DANGEROUS conditions. That would be America, you know that beacon of light that King Reagan referred too?

    Now the loony right is trying to say "It ain't so!". Yeah that's what the last 8 years has been about, getting some relief and justice from the system of racism that you easily ignore, but that's why The Dufus Show has you thrilled giddy, while you swallow his lies and picks your pocket. I know give him a chance... Okay, YOU give him a chance but don't beetch when he bankrupts YOU!

    Quote Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Or a Branch Davidian, or a land use protestor, or married to a "separatist (meaning a guy who wants to be left alone)" and holding his baby, or a hidden camera journalist, or holding evidence against a prominent Democrat.
    My reference was to wholesale systematic discrimination and inequality based solely on RACE. I will say though that wanting to be left alone doesn't put you above the law, nor does that hidden camera stuff exempt one from closer scrutiny. A rancher who looses in a lawful court of law, and grabs a gun would have been shot if he were black or Mexican and we both know that.

    That just leaves the guy holding evidence against a prominent democrat if you can clarify.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #7

    Oct 11, 2017, 02:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post

    @Clete

    Why are you surprised that a few collectors and dealers AND enthusiasts have so many guns? Even in the wild west USA most of the guns are owned by a relative few (NOT counting criminals), but at least YOUR country knows who has what, and there is a database to draw from. Our cops are not allowed a shared national database. Maybe that's why cops here are in fear of their life and shoot to kill and ask questions later when they stop a black guy for a busted taillight.
    I'm not surprised there are collectors and as the article says we are not talking about dealers but private individuals. Criminals, when they are busted, don't have collections like these and these are not for sporting purposes so I'm surprised that, in a small city like the one I live in where no one sees anything more lethal than a car, 20% of the population, probably every second household finds it necessary to be armed. We don't have the history of mass killings and insurrection america does and there are few dangerous animals
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    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #8

    Oct 11, 2017, 02:53 PM
    We haven't had armed insurrection since the Civil War, but I am surprised that the mass killings haven't been addressed not withstanding public sentiments, who favor universal registration databases just in case a loony gets loose, or a collector/seller gets his arsenal ripped off or something, and who knows what lurks in the minds of men. It would seem that we would have learned the lessons of the wild west where bad guys with bad intent never just walk in politely, they ambushed and get the drop on the good guys. That's where the mass killings have stemmed from, evil, or crazy, you decide.

    Appreciate the peace you have while it lasts, and I hope it doesn't get shattered by the same thing that shatters ours. High tolerance for abject INHUMAN lunacy. Fortunately so far your island paradise has not had to deal with it to the degree we have, and I hope you don't to be honest, but be aware of that todays surprise may be tomorrows shock.

    If I can get over the shock a fellow like Trump being president, then I'm sure your surprise at the number of guns in your small town will soon pass also.
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #9

    Oct 11, 2017, 03:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post



    . I will say though that wanting to be left alone doesn't put you above the law.
    But it does subject you to entrapment and being murdered by sniper fire for merely being there

    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    nor does that hidden camera stuff exempt one from closer scrutiny..
    But it does get you arrested for trespassing on public property.

    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    A rancher who looses in a lawful court of law, and grabs a gun would have been shot if he were black or Mexican and we both know that..
    Lavoy Finicum was neither.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #10

    Oct 11, 2017, 03:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Appreciate the peace you have while it lasts, and I hope it doesn't get shattered by the same thing that shatters ours. High tolerance for abject INHUMAN lunacy. Fortunately so far your island paradise has not had to deal with it to the degree we have, and I hope you don't to be honest, but be aware of that todays surprise may be tomorrows shock.

    If I can get over the shock a fellow like Trump being president, then I'm sure your surprise at the number of guns in your small town will soon pass also.
    It is precisely because lunatics like Trump exist that our peace might be shattered and tomorrow's shock maybe that Trump forgot to take his meds. Very soon he is going to stand on the NK border and I hope he doesn't shout insults over the fence. His timing visiting SK is unfortunate
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #11

    Oct 11, 2017, 05:12 PM
    This Finicum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVoy_Finicum.

    On January 26, 2016, law enforcement officers attempted to arrest Finicum and other occupation leaders while they were traveling on a remote highway away from the occupation site. After fleeing the officers, Finicum was stopped by a roadblock, where he challenged officers to shoot him. He was shot and killed by state troopers while moving his hands toward his pocket, where officers later found a loaded weapon.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #12

    Oct 11, 2017, 07:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I didn't want to hijack the thread with a new subject, sorry 'bout that Clete, but since you chimed in Smoothy...

    The history of man's migration is littered with oppression and violence, obviously a motive for you also. Glad you found a safe place to run and thrive, so have empathy for those that don't have means and resources but must escape lousy DANGEROUS conditions. That would be America, you know that beacon of light that King Reagan referred too?

    Now the loony right is trying to say "It ain't so!". Yeah that's what the last 8 years has been about, getting some relief and justice from the system of racism that you easily ignore, but that's why The Dufus Show has you thrilled giddy, while you swallow his lies and picks your pocket. I know give him a chance... Okay, YOU give him a chance but don't beetch when he bankrupts YOU!



    My reference was to wholesale systematic discrimination and inequality based solely on RACE. I will say though that wanting to be left alone doesn't put you above the law, nor does that hidden camera stuff exempt one from closer scrutiny. A rancher who looses in a lawful court of law, and grabs a gun would have been shot if he were black or Mexican and we both know that.

    That just leaves the guy holding evidence against a prominent democrat if you can clarify.
    What Racism.. the Fake racism and the Fake White privilege they Democrats insist on pushing since Bozo started pushing Racial division almost 9 years ago? Sorry, if you don't take education serious as a youth.. then whatever disadvantages that come from it are on THAT persons shoulders, nobody else's.. of if the idiot parents encouraged that same self destructive behavior, that's on THEM... and it has ZERO to do with white privilege. Nobody alive today, white or black owes ANYONE white or black anything from what happened before they were born. 17% of the population commit 75% of the crime... if they are committing the crime.. they deserve to get shot.. and don't deserve a special break because of some imagined "discrimination" they claim happened generations before they were born..

    Don't want shot? don't commit crimes....ZERO sympathy for criminals with long rap sheets who didn't learn their lesson. Can excuse a minor non-violent crime...can't for violent or repeat offenders. Cop says stop, you stop, you don't get cocky with the cop or you get what you deserve. Attack the cop, and you deserve to be removed from the human gene pool.

    There are far MORE "Mexicans" and "blacks" that seem to make it through life and do REALLY well...without whining and blaming OTHER ethnic groups, or committing crimes....or maybe its BECAUSE they take responsibility for their own lives and know what they get out of life is what they put into it. Just like everyone else. Its not a White, Black, brown or Yellow thing....its about two types. Those who are responsible..and those who aren't and blame everyone but the one person responsible, themselves.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,812, Reputation: 5431
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    #13

    Oct 11, 2017, 07:21 PM
    I grew up in the South and then lived in the Northeast and Midwest. Racism has been alive and well throughout my life in any of those places.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #14

    Oct 11, 2017, 07:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I grew up in the South and then lived in the Northeast and Midwest. Racism has been alive and well throughout my life in any of those places.
    I call bull on that... Nearly 40 years of affirmative action... where unqualified Minorities take the jobs Qualified people should have... free education yet minorities have the LOWEST High school graduation rates... and yet that is somehow everyone else's fault. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know lazy, uneducated and dumb, is NOT a recipe for success anyplace on earth. And I know a LOT of Minorities that will tell you the same thing.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #15

    Oct 11, 2017, 08:16 PM
    Bet you can't prove any of that propaganda, but you have the rant down PERFECTLY.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #16

    Oct 12, 2017, 02:28 PM
    I didn't want to hijack the thread with a new subject, sorry 'bout that Clete, but since you chimed in Smoothy.
    This is exactly what you have done, you want to discuss racism, get your own thread or follow up on Athos suggestion in the other thread.

    It is interesting to note guns cannot be discussed for long before someone throws it in the too hard basket
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    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #17

    Oct 12, 2017, 03:00 PM
    Point taken Clete, but personally what else is there to say about guns, since no matter what, even in "bastions of gun control", people are going to buy guns. Some more than others. I just wish we had the same common sense regulations that you guys have and that is the cops KNOW who has what. Obviously that's not going to happen no matter how many get killed.

    Very SAD all we have are condolences and prayers for the victims and families.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #18

    Oct 15, 2017, 02:45 AM
    You guys crack me up . When it comes to drugs you say make them legal because it's impossible to control them by outlawing them and people will get them anyway . But with guns you think bans are the big panacea .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #19

    Oct 15, 2017, 05:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    You guys crack me up . When it comes to drugs you say make them legal because it's impossible to control them by outlawing them and people will get them anyway . But with guns you think bans are the big panacea .
    Tom false dichotomy, if drugs were made legal there would be controls, but you think you can live in a world where there is no control over guns, truly a fool's paradise, right now you have no control over either drugs or guns, and if, observation is correct, no control over the White House either. Trump, with no cabinet, has created a dictatorship
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #20

    Oct 15, 2017, 10:17 AM

    1. but you think you can live in a world where there is no control over guns, truly a fool's paradise
    You think I'm an absolutist ....I am not . But I know that in the most controlled states ,illegal guns are still used in crimes ;while registered guns are not ....and the harder it is to get legal guns ,the more illegal guns exist.

    This is a useless debate because the libs will never admit that their goal is the repeal of the 2nd amendment,

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