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paraclete · Mar 6, 2012, 02:50 PM

It seems we are bogged down in the same tired old subjects, has nothing happened worthy of note?

Think on this:

The North Koreans are back to the negotiating table and the US (no less) is talking about building nuclear reactors for them. Now surely this is worthy of comment.

Once again a large part of Australia is flooded, yawn yawn

There are tornado's in the US, what, not again

Terrorists have gone their merry way in various places but then they have done it all before

Some religious artifacts were destroyed in Afghanistan and people died

tomder55 · Mar 6, 2012, 04:43 PM

The North Koreans are back to the negotiating table and the US (no less) is talking about building nuclear reactors for them. Now surely this is worthy of comment.

This is the same foolery that the Clintoons got suckered into when KimJong mentally Il took power. He needed the legitimacy and gravitas of the US engagement brought . So the Clintoons set up a food deal that did nothing for the starving population and a bogus nuke deal that he swiftly violated . That gave him time to copnsolidate his power ;and the nation suffered through his brutal reign for almost 2 decades

So ;who is directing policy now ? Evita Clintoon. This is déjà vu ;and I don't expect a different result. This is the same song and our suckers are falling for it again.

tomder55 · Mar 6, 2012, 05:30 PM

BTW ;did you hear that the NORKS conducted 2 nuclear tests in 2010 for the Iranians ? No ? No surprise there .
Evidence of the 2010 tests was published last month in Nature magazine and is based on the research of Swedish nuclear physicist Lars-Erik de Geer. A German newspaper said that Iranian physicists were at the tests .

paraclete · Mar 6, 2012, 05:49 PM

Tom as I recall the NK let off a couple of small blasts. More like tests of a trigger which is all you really need to do. I don't doubt there has been cooperation between NK and the Iranians, after all who else are they going to cooperate with, the Pakistanis?

I like to view developments with a positive veiw until I'm proven wrong, so yes we may go down the same path with NK a number of times until they realise that none of us are their enemies and we all have a vested interest in that country emerging from the dark ages of Stalinist communism. If they could be turned what a counter they would be to China with their pool of cheap labour. The US could immediately pour in mega -dollars with no regulation or thought of CO2 and we would also see the same investment flows that Taiwan made in China duplicated by SK in NK

As to the Iranians, I have the same thoughts, stop the argy-bargy and make the same sort of concessions

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2012, 03:30 AM

As to the Iranians, I have the same thoughts, stop the argy-bargy and make the same sort of concessions

Neville Chamberlain would be proud.

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2012, 05:05 AM

Once again a large part of Australia is flooded, yawn yawn

There are tornado's in the US, what, not again

Weather patterns and climate change happen

Terrorists have gone their merry way in various places but then they have done it all before

And we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the 1990s .Here the big news is NYC police dept deciding to be vigilant .

Some religious artifacts were destroyed in Afghanistan and people died

I believe I've addressed this issue before . We are leaving with our tail's between our legs . Before we go I highly recommend the Roman solution to Carthage at the end of the final Punic war.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2012, 02:38 PM

Once again a large part of Australia is flooded, yawn yawn

There are tornado's in the US, what, not again

Weather patterns and climate change happen

In some places these floods are be Biggest since 1864 in others just the biggest in twenty years, show me where climate change is involved, no just natural variability

and we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the 1990s .Here the big news is NYC police dept deciding to be vigilant

.

This is news, I thought it might be business as usual

Quote:
Some religious artifacts were destroyed in Afghanistan and people died

I believe I've addressed this issue before . We are leaving with our tail's between our legs . Before we go I highly recommend the Roman solution to Carthage at the end of the final Punic war.

Scorched earth will get you no where and in any event you haven't conquered the place just dropped in for a visit

paraclete · Mar 7, 2012, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Neville Chamberlain would be proud.

No Tom you are applying the Neville Chamberlain solution in NK and yet you are not even handed enough to apply it to Iran. What is the difference? NK is an athiestic state, Iran is a Muslin state, You have already fought NK to a standstill but no victory, you have yet to prove your resolve against Iran who lost a million men in another fight funded by you and are still there.

I'm merely suggesting if diplomacy provides a solution it might be tried elsewhere

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2012, 02:51 PM

and in any event you haven't conquered the place just dropped in for a visit

I actually think we have done much better than most empires who have ventured into the region . We will leave ;the Taliban will take over... there will be the traditional tribal ,ethnic ,and sectional conflicts that the Taliban will not be able to control. And the Pakis will still have their hand full .

But perhaps we have planted some seed corn of liberty in the minds of the people. Just a thought. That is the only positive I can find from it as the President has cast the die that our work there will be incomplete .

Take the radical jihadism out of the equation for a minute and what are the Taliban ? They are ethnic Pashtuns . Perhaps even larger in size than the Kurdish areas ;the Pashtuns could well be the biggest ethnic group that does not have a nation of it's own. This will not stand... They won't be satisfied with keeping on their side of the Durand Line ;not with so much of Pakistan inhabitted by Pashtuns.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I actually think we have done much better than most empires who have ventured into the region . But perhaps we have planted some seed corn of liberty in the minds of the people. Just a thought.

Take the radical jihadism out of the equation for a minute and what are the Taliban ? They are ethnic Pashtuns . Perhaps even larger in size than the Kurdish areas ;the Pashtuns could well be the biggest ethnic group that does not have a nation of it's own. This will not stand ... They won't be satisfied with keeping on their side of the Durand Line ;not with so much of Pakistan inhabitted by Pashtuns.

Don't be niaive Tom Afghanistan will go back to what it was before you came, a Muslim fundamentalist state. It basically is the Nation of the Pashtuns, it is just that they haven't wrested the tribal areas away from Pakistan. You have been at war with the Pushtun nation. Your drones have bombed their settlements in Pakistan, your troops have invaded their homes in Afghanistan. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are artificial constructs, the legacy of the British leaving with their tail between their legs and you are going to leave having achieved nothing for the Afghan people, nothing for the Pushtun people. You have a small victory you have defeated Al Qaeda in that place. If you had killed OBL ten years ago you wouldn't be there now and you wouldn't give a fig for Pakistan

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2012, 04:15 PM

I don't give a fig about them now.. I've always said our natural allies in the sub-continent was the largest democracy on the planet... India .

You never know what will happen long term. Despite your unfair characterization of our conduct there ,we have done a lot of good. Too bad it will all go to waste with our premature withdrawal.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I don't give a fig about them now .. I've always said our natural allies in the sub-continent was the largest democracy on the planet... India .

You never know what will happen long term. Despite your unfair characterization of our conduct there ,we have done alot of good. Too bad it will all go to waste with our premature withdrawal.

I don't know how you can say you have done a lot of GOOD. Installing a puppet government, alienating the population and bombing a neighbouring nation, a supposed ally, isn't doing a lot of good. Everything you did in the last ten years was undone by one culturally insensitive act and you just don't see it. You see, it is the attitude you display here regarding India that is part of your relationship problems with Pakistan. Pakistan is an undeveloped nation waiting for big brother to take it by the hand, but you look to India and see what a big market. India doesn't need you. You might need India to counter China. Culturally you are miles apart. You should export your industries to Pakistan you would really rival China then. Look at the possibilities, Cheap labour, developed military, a convenient border with Iran, deep water port, airfields, and a massive market right next door. If you put the billions you have wasted in Afghanistan there it would boom

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2012, 04:56 PM

. Pakistan is an undeveloped nation waiting for big brother to take it by the hand,

Ah yes ;we forgot that we are supposed to be paternalistic. Back in the old days they used to call that "white man's burden" . And you say I'm culturally insensitive. .
I look for an alliance of free people and you say all I'm looking for is market share.

You should export your industries to Pakistan you would really rival China then. Look at the possibilities, Cheap labour, developed military, a convenient border with Iran, deep water port, airfields, and a massive market right next door. If you put the billions you have wasted in Afghanistan there it would boom

And some more Cold War mentality . I submit that it was this type of flawed realpolitik logic that led us to ally on the wrong side on the sub-continent . Free countries are natural strategic partners .

paraclete · Mar 7, 2012, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Ah yes ;we forgot that we are supposed to be paternalistic. Back in the old days they used to call that "white man's burden" . And you say I'm culturally insensitive. .
I look for an alliance of free people and you say all I'm looking for is market share.

The pakistani are as free as the indians. They have had the occasional dictatorship but they have moved beyond that, unless you push them back. Yes you are looking for market share because the Indian industries will push you out.

And some more Cold War mentality . I submit that it was this type of flawed realpolitik logic that led us to ally on the wrong side on the sub-continent . Free countries are natural strategic partners .

So therefore Pakistan is just as natural a strategic partner, they were good enough in the cold war, but not good enough now. You are truly on the wrong side of the sub-continent if you side with India. What you are saying is that islamic countries aren't natural strategic partners and I would agree with you, but where is there a natural strategic partner for the US in Asia? India wasn't going to fight the soviets for you. Convenience politics, use them then throw them away, it's the american way.

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2012, 04:28 AM

seems we are bogged down in the same tired old subjects

Note that we are the only ones commenting.. that's because the Dems are hung up on sexual issues .

paraclete · Mar 8, 2012, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

note that we are the only ones commenting.. that's because the Dems are hung up on sexual issues .

Yes thus my original question,

Is there anything current here?

because any discussions on those issues are old news.

The reality is they probably are feeling a little left out at the moment, BO is focused on Iran, the only debates in town are republicans doing each other down.

I would have thought the devistation by tornados was a big thing, can you guys do more about protection? I know where they will strike is unpredictable, but it is reasonably predictable that it is going to happen. Over here we have learned about cyclones and the last category 5 didn't do as much damage and certainly less loss of life

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2012, 06:55 AM

The forecasters are pretty good at giving a heads up regarding warnings . But there isn't much you can do about it beyond having an underground shelter you hope doesn't take a direct hit.

The Dems are feeling for a campaign issue and they think contraception is it .Obama must retain the advantage he had in 2008 with women... other than that they could care less about their rights .It's the same thing with immigration issues. The President had a big advantage with Hispanic voters .So ;even though he basically shoved them to the back of the bus his
1st term ;look for him to make some polarizing move on that front.

I note that the Dem chairman wants to add a plank in their platform for so called "gay marriage " . The President has stated he opposes it but to appease the base he says his position is "evolving " . Well it's time for him to put up or shut up. The Dems string their base along and then discard them when not needed. He knows that the majority of the nation opposes 'gay marriage ' so lets see if he will allow the official change in party policy.

excon · Mar 8, 2012, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Yes thus my original question, because any discussions on those issues are old news

Hello clete:

Here's some more old news.. Sarah Palin is going to be at the convention WAITING to be chosen the savior of the Republican Party.

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

paraclete · Mar 8, 2012, 02:03 PM

Hi Ex I expect there might be others doing the same act

speechlesstx · Mar 14, 2012, 01:14 PM

Speaking of saviors, the Lake County, Florida Democratic Party flew a US flag with Obama instead of stars at their headquarters.

Seems some vets who fought for our flag weren't too happy. Personally I wish they'd fly one at all his campaign appearances, Flank his podium with them.