[ETWolverine]

Seems to me that for all their talk about how Palin couldn't handle the heat as Governor of Alaska and was forced to quit, the Dems are the ones who are acting like a bunch of crybabies when a few of their town hall meetings don't go as planned.

Seems to me that the Dems can't handle it when their positions are questioned. They're so flustered that they've had to put out official statements complaining about "organized mobs" disrupting their town hall meetings.

Boo hoo.

You reap what you sow. Their organized attacks against Palin showed Republicans what can be done. The constant organized attacks against George Bush by Moveon.org, Michael Moore, and every liberal group in existence taught the Republicans a lesson about organizing their supporters at the grass roots level. From tea parties to town hall meetings, the Dems are having to take a bit of their own medicine.

Now the Dems can't handle the heat that THEY created.

Elliot

[excon]

Really? The DNC put out a memo making that claim yesterday. Robert Gibbs made that claim as well.

So... Who is doing the organizing? Who has gotten paid to show up at a town hall meeting? Cany anyone name names?

You reap what you sow. Their organized attacks against Palin showed Republicans what can be done.

Now the Dems can't handle the heat that THEY created.

Hello again, Elliot:

I'm not sure if you hear yourself... First you DENY the disruption was organized, then you say the Democrats got out organized...

You're kind of like Glen Beck, who in the same conversation said, "Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people...." Then a few seconds later, this, "I'm not saying that he doesn't have white friends"...

You want it BOTH ways, El. But we're wise to you.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Supporting Palin. Wow.

[speechlesstx]

Again and again you guys act like being organized is a bad thing. Just how the heck do you think the people will ever have an impact if we aren't organized? And all this BS - the latest ORGANIZED Democrat talking point in case you haven't caught the irony already - coming from supporters of the Community Organizer-in-Chief. If it wasn't so unbelievably hypocritical of you guys I'd have to laugh out loud.

[excon]

Again and again you guys act like being organized is a bad thing.

Hello again, Steve:

Being organized to shout down the democratic process ISN'T good. If your stuff is so right on, you wouldn't need to shout, or make up phony flow charts, or say the only reason the dems want to do this is to kill old people.

Maybe you do all that stuff because you can't win a straight up debate. That's what I'm thinking...

What I want to know, is why you support the insurance companies?? I KNOW they haven't done you any favors. Are you too drunk on the right wing koolaid to see what they're doing in your OWN life?

excon

[ETWolverine]

Hello again, Elliot:

I'm not sure if you hear yourself..... First you DENY the disruption was organized, then you say the Democrats got out organized....

You're kinda like Glen Beck, who in the same conversation said, "Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people...." Then a few seconds later, this, "I'm not saying that he doesn't have white friends".....

You want it BOTH ways, El. But we're wise to you.

excon

What I deny is that any official group organized anything. No GOP group, no insurance companies, no Republican think-tanks organized anything. What you are seeing is a bunch of grass-roots individuals getting together and organizing THEMSELVES. These are known as "random associators" and they tend to be disorganized in the extreme.

Like it or not, what you are seeing is a grass-roots backlash at Obama's policies in general and his health policy in particular. Any "organizing" taking place is at the grass roots level, not at the level of political or corporate agencies.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

What I deny is that any official group organized anything. No GOP group, no insurance companies, no Republican think-tanks organized anything. What you are seeing is a bunch of grass-roots individuals getting together and organizing THEMSELVES. These are known as "random associators" and they tend to be disorganized in the extreme.

Like it or not, what you are seeing is a grass-roots backlash at Obama's policies in general and his health policy in particular. Any "organizing" taking place is at the grass roots level, not at the level of political or corporate agencies.

Elliot

Memo Details Co-ordinated Anti-Reform Harrassment Strategy | TPM Document Collection

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Being organized to shout down the democratic process ISN'T good. If your stuff is so right on, you wouldn't need to shout, or make up phony flow charts, or say the only reason the dems want to do this is to kill old people.

Except for that last line this is EXACTLY the M.O. of the left.

Maybe you do all that stuff because you can't win a straight up debate. That's what I'm thinking...

You say that as if the other side actually has an open mind. Judging from the posters here in all the attempts we've made to have a straight up debate I can come to no other conclusion than most don't have an open mind... not even to the facts.

What I want to know, is why you support the insurance companies?? I KNOW they haven't done you any favors. Are you too drunk on the right wing koolaid to see what they're doing in your OWN life?

What I want to know is why you keep saying I support the insurance companies? I - like I thought you did at one time - support a limited government that doesn't stick its nose in my business at every opportunity. I haven't changed on that, you apparently have.

[ETWolverine]

Obama's Community Roots

By David Moberg

This article appeared in the April 16, 2007 edition of The Nation.
April 3, 2007

In 1985, freshly graduated from Columbia University and working for a New York business consultant, Barack Obama decided to become a community organizer.

Since when did "organized" political action become a sin?

[ETWolverine]

Memo Details Co-ordinated Anti-Reform Harrassment Strategy | TPM Document Collection

Just one problem with your article, NK.

It proves my point.

The "organization" is taking place at the grass roots level by TEA PARTY groups, not by the GOP, not by the insurance companies, and not by any registered political organization. The particular memo you have posted is by the "Connecticut Tea Party Patriots"

It is all taking place at the GRASS ROOTS.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Supporting Palin. Wow.

The post wasn't about supporting Palin. The post was about the hypocrisy of the Dems claiming that Palin can't take the heat, and then acting like a bunch of crybabies when the heat is turned up on them.

[excon]

What I wanna know is why you keep saying I support the insurance companies? I - like I thought you did at one time - support a limited government that doesn't stick its nose in my business at every opportunity. I haven't changed on that, you apparently have.

Hello again, Steve:

I don't like to have ANYONE tell me how to live my life... But, you seem to think that only government can do that... But, government must be doing something good for the insurance companies. Otherwise, the health insurance industry wouldn't need to spend so much money courting government favor...

And, I submit that the favors they're doing for the health insurance industry run directly opposite of YOUR needs as a citizen and a family man.

So, as much as I am opposed to the government telling me what to do, I am MORE opposed to corporate America telling me what to do. I know you don't see it in that light. For you righty's, business is good, even if it isn't...

I've said before, and I'm saying again, when corporate profits begin to erode the quality of life for the average American, instead of boosting it, as it's supposed to do, then those profits become OBSCENE, and must be stopped.

To see if I can elevate the conversation to another level, the health insurance industry is the SAME as the oil industry. We, as a nation, will not allow that industry to bankrupt us, as surly as they're going to do if they're NOT nationalized. We WILL do that... You're certainly not for them selling the last of our oil, are you?? We're going to need some for our tanks.

If the health insurance industry hadn't abused us, the price of health care would be hunky dory and we wouldn't even be addressing it now... But, they did, and we are.

excon

[speechlesstx]

I don't like to have ANYONE tell me how to live my life... But, you seem to think that only government can do that... But, government must be doing something good for the insurance companies. Otherwise, the health insurance industry wouldn't need to spend so much money courting government favor...

EVERY industry courts government favor. Democrats are just as adept at doling out and accepting favors as Republicans if not more so. Obama was going to end lobbyist influence but he's right in the thick of it himself.

So, as much as I am opposed to the government telling me what to do, I am MORE opposed to corporate America telling me what to do. I know you don't see it in that light. For you righty's, business is good, even if it isn't...

As we've pointed out a number of times, at least with corporate America we DO have a choice, unlike the phony 'choice' being offered in Obamacare.

If the health insurance industry hadn't abused us, the price of health care would be hunky dory and we wouldn't even be addressing it now... But, they did, and we are.

If lawyers hadn't abused the health care industry we might having a completely different conversation now. As for the rest, we've all admitted it needs reform, we just differ on how to go about that. I'm NOT willing to turn that much power over my life over to the government, you apparently are. And THAT is what's motivating the grassroots - of ALL persuasions not just conservatives - to organize against this massive government takeover.

[ETWolverine]

I've said before, and I'm saying again, when corporate profits begin to erode the quality of life for the average American, instead of boosting it, as it's supposed to do, then those profits become OBSCENE, and must be stopped.

Your argument MIGHT make some sense if that was what was happening. But that QUALITY OF LIFE under the private health system is BETTER than under any nationalized system.

Study after study has shown that we have better medical outcomes for EVERY DISEASE AND AILMENT than any other country in the world. I have previously posted some of those studies. The profits of the insurance company have succeeded in IMPROVING the quality of health care to the American people over that of other countries.

Also, if the goal of nationalized health care is to keep costs down, and if the government is supposed to be able to do that because they are more efficient than private insurance, how do you explain that the rise in costs of health care for Medicare and Medicaid have outpaced the rise in costs in private medicine by 35% since 1975?

Seems to me that those profits you think are so "obscene" is the very thing that is creating an IMPROVEMENT in the quality of life for Americans, both in terms of quality of care and in terms of COST of care.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Just in case we haven't shown enough hypocrisy from the whiners (which we have), here's another little tidbit...

"The hot days of August are going to be a critical time for every member of Congress," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen, the Maryland Democrat charged with getting his colleagues re-elected next year as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. "You don't want to create a political vacuum when you leave Washington."

Van Hollen said he has been assured by the White House it will be actively promoting health care, with the help of outside groups allied with it. And Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, told House Democrats last week that the committee would help them sell Obama's agenda and as well as bolstering their reelection efforts next year.

A White House official said the administration is still in the process of making plans for the recess, but labor leaders and other administration allies told POLITICO that they’re gearing up to spend millions on television advertisements and grass-roots organizing. And, judging by spending already reported by some of these groups, they are off to an impressive start.

“We’re going to fight the fight,” said Gerald McEntee, the president of AFSCME, the public sector workers union. McEntee said his union would send television advertisements and organizers into the districts of more than 40 wavering legislators with the goal of getting their constituents “literally incensed about the fact that they’re standing in the way of health care reform.”

Did you especially get that last sentence? A union allied with and in conjunction with Obama ORGANIZING with television ads and ORGANIZERS "with the goal of getting their constituents “literally incensed."


Go ahead, keep spitting out today's liberal talking points without using your brain.

[NeedKarma]

The post wasn't about supporting Palin. The post was about the hypocracy of the Dems claiming that Palin can't take the heat, and then acting like a bunch of crybabies when the heat is turned up on them.

Have any representatives quit politics yet?

[NeedKarma]

What I deny is that any official group organized anything. No GOP group, no insurance companies, no Republican think-tanks organized anything.

The "organization" is taking place at the grass roots level by TEA PARTY groups, not by the GOP,

FreedomWorks is involved.
Think Progress Spontaneous Uprising? Corporate Lobbyists Helping To Orchestrate Radical Anti-Obama Tea Party Protests

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/...they-see-them/

Freedomworks isn't some "organic grassroots" outfit. It's run by former Republican House Majority Leader Armey -- corporate lobbyist, global warming denier and ladie's man. The President and CEO of Freedomworks is Matt Kibbee, who was trained by Lee Atwater. Kibbe was behind the attempt to get Ralph Nader put on the ballot in Oregon in 2004, prompting a complaint to the FEC of illegal collusion with the GOP.

Steve Forbes is on the FreedomWorks board. As Paul Krugman noted, their money comes from the Koch, Scaife, Bradley, Olin nexus, as well as other reliable funders of right wing infrastructure including Exxon Mobil.

Freedomworks has a long history of skunk works. In 2004, a woman who identified herself as a "single mother" in Iowa, Sandra Jacques, appeared at a George Bush town hall and gushed about his plan to privatize Social Security. She left out the part about being an employee of Freedomworks, who were lobbying on the issue at the time.

[speechlesstx]

Right on cue, keep spitting today's talking point out in spite of all of the evidence of the hypocrisy smacking you in the face.

[speechlesstx]

And just for grins (since I know you two won't acknowledge any of this)...

The Community-Organizer-In-Chief ORGANIZING the astroturf to do his bidding on health care instead of being president.

The Community-Organizer-In-Chief ORGANIZING the astroturf to do his bidding on the budget instead of being president.

The Community-Organizer-In-Chief begging for money to fund the astroturf to do his bidding on health care instead of being president. From the email:

The campaign to pass real health care reform in 2009 is the biggest test of our movement since the election. Once again, victory is far from certain. Our opposition will be fierce, and they have been down this road before. To prevail, we must once more build a coast-to-coast operation ready to knock on doors, deploy volunteers, get out the facts, and show the world how real change happens in America.

And just like before, I cannot do it without your support.

So I'm asking you to remember all that you gave over the last two years to get us here -- all the time, resources, and faith you invested as a down payment to earn us our place at this crossroads in history. All that you've done has led up to this -- and whether our country takes the next crucial step depends on what you do right now.

Please donate whatever you can afford to support the campaign for real health care reform in 2009.

It doesn't matter how much you can give, as long as you give what you can. Millions of families on the brink are counting on us to do just that. I know we can deliver.

All in response to the groundswell begun by ONE person.

And for even more grins, a comparison of how protesters were treated under Bush and how they're treated under Obama.

Go ahead, spit those talking points out again.

[ETWolverine]

FreedomWorks is involved.
Think Progress Spontaneous Uprising? Corporate Lobbyists Helping To Orchestrate Radical Anti-Obama Tea Party Protests

Campaign Silo How Come CBS Journalists Can't Recognize Paid Lobbyists When They See Them?

Yes, yes, I know. Any nebulous connection that can be made between grass roots organizers and "official" agencies, the libs will try to make.

"Did you hear... Robert MacGuffie from Connecticut Tea Party Patriots has a pet dog that once stayed in a kennel that also housed the dog of Christopher C. Healy, the Chairman of the Connecticut Republican Party. There's a clear connection between them. So the Connecticut Republican Party is behind the 'spontaneous uprisings'. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya..."

Elliot