[speechlesstx]

More from those scientists who "don't know squat":

Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away

ICE is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth's ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water, The Australian reports. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilisation of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.

Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded.

And yet Obama's EPA has joined the consensus to declare the hazards of greenhouse gases including CO2 so he can push his agenda forward. And don't call me silly, it's much sillier to follow this chicken little environmental nonsense in the face of the volumes of contradictory evidence. Clean air is great, recycling is wonderful, don't throw your trash into the air or in my yard... but do it for the right reasons. I didn't drink the Koolaid.

[speechlesstx]

"this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" -Barack Obama in his nomination victory speech

Studies Predict Rapid Rise in Sea Levels Along U.S. East Coast

By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 5, 2009; 11:12 AM

Sea levels could rise faster along the U.S. East Coast than in any other densely populated part of the world, new research shows, as changes in ice caps and ocean currents push water toward a shoreline inlaid with cities, resort boardwalks and gem-rare habitats.

Three studies this year, including one out last week, have made newly worrisome forecasts about life along the Atlantic over the next century. While the rest of the world might see seven to 23 inches of sea-level rise by 2100, the studies show this region might get that and more -- 17 to 25 inches more -- for a total increase that would submerge a beach chair.

Might.

Scientists say the information comes from computer models, which could be wrong. And the mid-Atlantic region's ample high ground means it will probably never be as vulnerable as Louisiana and Florida.

But some are already sketching a new vision for the East Coast, as a region under siege by the ocean. In the coming decades, they say, it will probably be necessary to spend heavily to defend some waterside places -- and to make hard choices about where to let the sea win.

"There will probably be some very difficult decisions that have to be made," said Rob Thieler, a scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey. "Are there places where we should simply retreat because the cost of holding the line is unacceptably high?"

Today, the governors of coastal states from New York to Virginia are scheduled to release an agreement on Atlantic Ocean issues, including the need to prepare for sea-level rise. The governors will pledge to identify places and facilities most vulnerable to high water, including port areas, parts of the power grid and other infrastructure.

Oops, I guess it will have to be another moment. I have to give kudos to this reporter for emphasizing the "might" because computer models "could be wrong." But it could just be that since we have a believer in the White House now and more scientists are voicing their disagreement with the consensus, now might be a good time to change the tone and get away with it? Nah, not until we fully bow at the altar of environmentalism.

[N0help4u]

I want to drown Gore and everybody that is so brainwashed to believe him in the Artic!!

I had the furnace on June 5th!!

[tomder55]

If NYC got swamped it wouldn't be the worse thing in the world. Besides that ;I live far enough inland that I might end up with beach front property.:D

[speechlesstx]

If NYC got swamped it wouldn't be the worse thing in the world. Besides that ;I live far enough inland that I might end up with beach front property.:D

I like the optimism, tom. :D

[amdeist]

We don't have to worry about global warming. Sometime before that destroys our planet, an asteroid will make contact with earth and will end human life.

[excon]

Hello:

I woke up this morning, and the war was over. I can tell because I didn't see it in my neighborhood.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello:

I woke up this morning, and the war was over. I can tell because I didn't see it in my neighborhood.

At least you based it on observation and not computer models.

[tomder55]

If that were the standard then I think our point is proven .

According to Long Range Expert Joe Bastardi, areas from the northern Plains into the Northeast will have a "year without a summer."
http://www.accuweather.com/news-stor...hg=1&article=9

[Skell]

Speech / Tom

As I've said before I'm not completely convinced either. But, for all the silly reports you link about cold weather here and there or another group of scientists who are pessimists about climate change there are reports about hot weather (see my previous link about the most severe bush fires our country has ever experienced) and another group of scientists who claim global warming is very real and man made.

I read a report yesterday (ill try and find the link) that more than 100 of the worlds leading climate studies institutions are convinced that the current rate of global warming is more than a natural trend. There is ample data to make claim that is in fact very much man made.

What is your big problem with the world trying to clean up its act? Sure you don't like Gore. We already knew that. And we know you won't like whatever policy Obama puts in place. We know that too. Or is it simply the scientists you have a thing against. Does it threaten you?

But the constant denying that something needs to be done is just plain ridiculous and is actually getting boring.

The world is over Gore and in fact none of us even really care about what he has to say. You guys might still be transfixed on him in the states but the rest of the world has moved on to listening to responsible and reputable science institutes of which there are many saying that we need to do something.

[speechlesstx]

What is your big problem with the world trying to clean up its act? Sure you don't like Gore. We already knew that. And we know you won't like whatever policy Obama puts in place. We know that too. Or is it simply the scientists you have a thing against. Does it threaten you?

Asked and answered many times. I'm all for clean air, clean water, taking care of this place. I'm against a forced agenda that's going to drastically alter our lives based on very questionable 'science.' It's an agenda that has outright rejected debate, labeled and demonized dissenters and even gone so far as to brand some of us criminals for daring to question the consensus. That's ridiculous Skell, and we're the ones being told to have an open mind about it.

But the constant denying that something needs to be done is just plain ridiculous and is actually getting boring.

That's the problem Skell, everyone talks about the 'denial' but won't discuss the reasons for it.

The world is over Gore

He's the poster child.

[Skell]

How will your life be drastically altered? Sincere question? You may shed some light for me.

And Gore is your poster child Bit like your mate Rush is the Dem's poster child for the Pub's.

As I said there are countless other very reputable scientists and institutions who refute your claims.

[inthebox]

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_12548887


... former Vice President Al Gore — co-founder of San Francisco-based Current TV, for which the journalists work — could be sent to North Korea to negotiate for their release.

Maybe Al Gore should offer to be the hostage in exchange for the freedom of the 2 journalists that work for him?





G&P

[Skell]

Again, if the best you guys have got is to attack Al Gore and link to articles about cold weather then you really have no argument at all.

[speechlesstx]

Again, if the best you guys have got is to attack Al Gore and link to articles about cold weather then you really have no argument at all.

Skell, I've long thought The Goracle was irrelevant but I'm not the one who has held him up as some sort of environmental god... I think he should have stuck to his internet creation.

[Skell]

Nearly every page here has posts from you guys referring to Gore. In fact you guys are about the only people I still hear talking about him. So the fact that continue to do so long after his day in the sun means you are doing anything but thinking he is irrelevant.

I've never even seen his documentary. I'd heard of climate change long before he came along. I actually think he is irrelevant, along with your snowing in Texas stories. It's the countless other scientists who are saying we need to have a look at what we are doing that I do find relevant and think you should maybe pause to listen to just a bit longer than you do to Gore.

[inthebox]

Yeah I think the climate HAS BEEN CHANGING, even before humans came to dominate the earth.

And we are talking about Gore - it is in th title of the OP.






G&P

[tomder55]

What is your big problem with the world trying to clean up its act?

As Steve said we have never objected that.Nobody I know of objects to sensible changes that are not draconian life-altering changes imposed based on a very questionable premise.

Our government is now desperately trying to insitutute cap and trade. Their concern is not the climate change. They need the revenue to pay for the funding gaps in their proposed health care ideas. They make no secret about that . But they can't sell it to America that way . That is where those so called worlds leading climate studies institutions run cover for their policies.

Well the number of reputable scientists who dispute their claims is growing as the hysteria is replaced with genuine study.


The undeniable fact is that the globe has been warming since the glaciers of the last ice age. I live on or near the edge of the glacier advance and I can tell you that where I live was fertile farm land long before the introduction of the internal combustion engine.

[speechlesstx]

Yep, another climate change update...

Not So Windy: Research suggests winds dying down

WASHINGTON (AP) — The wind, a favorite power source of the green energy movement, seems to be dying down across the United States. And the cause, ironically, may be global warming — the very problem wind power seeks to address.

The idea that winds may be slowing is still a speculative one, and scientists disagree whether that is happening. But a first-of-its-kind study suggests that average and peak wind speeds have been noticeably slowing since 1973, especially in the Midwest and the East.

"It's a very large effect," said study co-author Eugene Takle, a professor of atmospheric science at Iowa State University. In some places in the Midwest, the trend shows a 10 percent drop or more over a decade. That adds up when the average wind speed in the region is about 10 to 12 miles per hour.

There's been a jump in the number of low or no wind days in the Midwest, said the study's lead author, Sara Pryor, an atmospheric scientist at Indiana University.

Wind measurements plotted out on U.S. maps by Pryor show wind speeds falling mostly along and east of the Mississippi River. Some areas that are banking on wind power, such as west Texas and parts of the Northern Plains, do not show winds slowing nearly as much. Yet, states such as Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Kansas, Virginia, Louisiana, Georgia, northern Maine and western Montana show some of the biggest drop in wind speeds.

Just thought I'd highlight that part about "speculative" and disagreement. I don't know about you guys, but I'd consider the wind slowing down in these parts a blessing. Here in the High Plains our trees tend to lean to the north permanently due to the prevailing winds.

[excon]

As Steve said we have never objected that. Nobody I know of objects to sensible changes that are not draconian life-altering changes imposed based on a very questionable premise.

Hello again, tom (you too, Steve):

You're trying to have it both ways.

We've had this discussion before - about throwing our trash into the air. You SEEM to say that you don't mind cleaning up that kind of stuff, as long as it's "sensible"...

But, this is where I'm confused. Either throwing trash into the air is just fine, or it isn't. If it ISN'T fine, and you're willing to cut back, then it kind of looks like you indeed, accept the premise... Yet, you BOTH continually use the term "questionable" when you speak of it.

Plus, if you didn't accept the premise, why on earth would you accept ANY change at all, sensible or not? If you righty's came up with dingbat stuff, I'd call you on it. I'd tell you there AIN'T no dingbat stuff, and there's NO "sensible" response to dingbat stuff. But, that's just what I'd do.

So, which way is it?

excon