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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #1

    May 25, 2022, 06:05 AM
    Robb Elementary .
    Responding to this comment #44 from posting
    'Republicans are against feeding born babies'
    Democratic Representative Veronica Escobar TX, “there is one party in America that is so tied to the NRA, so addicted to their money and their endorsement, that they are willing to let babies die. And that is the Republican Party.”

    Huh?? I wonder if she sees the irony in that comment.

    Same old same old . Even Bubba understood to not politicize a tragedy. The first 2 minutes or so it sounded like Clueless understood that .Of course he did not sound any where's near as upset when his botched Afghan withdrawal cost us 13 troops .

    Then Clueless launched into a similar screed . “When in God’s name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?” Insisting that the 1994 semi-automatic ban worked ;he called for their banning again The Columbine attack occurred while there was a nationwide ban on semi-automatic rifles .

    Did The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban Work? No. Here Are The Data. - The Gun Study
    . Not one shooting in America has happened from an NRA member . The type of gun used in the shootings is unknown. He reportedly walked into the school with a rifle and a handgun AFTER firing at police .

    The one common denominator in all the mass shootings is that the criminal targets unarmed people . As usual the Dems resort to solutions that don't work . The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegal guns .
    In the 13 states with the fewest restrictions on gun ownership, 40 percent of inmates illegally obtained the gun they used, Webster said. Only about 13 percent purchased the gun from a store or pawn shop.
    In the other 37 states, including New York state, 60 percent of inmates illegally procured the gun they used, Webster said.
    "If you look at the most stringent standards for legal gun ownership, it’s more like 65 percent,"
    PolitiFact | Is most gun crime committed by those who illegally possess guns?

    To those who think that this is a matter that should be left to law enforcement and say that the 2nd amendment was created at a time when people could not rely on timely law enforcement ;the shootings at Robb Elementary occurred with police on hand. They called for backup and that took several minutes when seconds counted .

    The 2 problems that need addressing is mental health ;especially among our teens and youth ;and adequate safety at our schools and other public institutions .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #2

    May 25, 2022, 06:56 AM
    When I was in high school in the sixties (no, not the 1860's), boys would routinely bring their hunting rifles to school so they could leave school and hit the woods. No one shot the place up. But there was respect for life then. Movies were not nearly as unspeakably violent as they are today. There was no public endorsement of abortion. Prayer was exercised in many schools. The Ten Commandments, including a prohibition on murder, were posted on many school walls. I wonder if all of that made a difference?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #3

    May 25, 2022, 09:13 AM
    The population figure was much lower. Plus no video games, families were Mom, Dad, and kids, rape and sexual molestation existed but were generally rare, and churches preached hellfire and fear, not love.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #4

    May 25, 2022, 04:12 PM
    loss of family values is a prime culprit when seeking causation. Society also must recognizing that there is a thing called pure evil that has to be defended against .
    Fatherlessness ? keep your mouth shut ! Even though back in the day we nostalagize about it was the father who taught gun safety and responsibility to our generation.
    That is why my peers were able to bring guns to school and have gun clubs in the schools .

    University of Virginia Professor Brad Wilcox in 2013, "nearly every shooting over the last year in Wikipedia’s 'list of U.S. school attacks' involved a young man whose parents divorced or never married in the first place.”
    Sons of Divorce, School Shooters | Institute for Family Studies (ifstudies.org)
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #5

    May 25, 2022, 04:21 PM
    The population figure was much lower. Plus no video games, families were Mom, Dad, and kids, rape and sexual molestation existed but were generally rare, and churches preached hellfire and fear, not love.
    Perhaps you will be happy to know that I find some points of agreement with you, especially concerning family issues and video games. I would say fatherless families are a enormous problem as well as generally decreasing church attendance.

    I talked with my son about this today at lunch. He is, I'm sad to report, a liberal dem, but he does have some good sense and asks some good questions. He asked why I thought this epidemic of mass shootings seemed to be in U.S. and not so much elsewhere. I thought that was similarly a good question. I'm sure the relative scarcity of semi-auto weapons in other countries plays some part in it.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #6

    May 26, 2022, 02:48 AM
    Video games it turns out plays a big role in this recent attack. Add to that the isolation that many kids were forced to live in under insane covid protocols
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #7

    May 26, 2022, 03:00 AM
    This is stunning .


    Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.
    “Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.
    Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.
    Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.
    “Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”
    “They were unprepared,” he added.

    19 children, 2 adults killed in Texas school rampage | AP News
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #8

    May 26, 2022, 04:46 AM
    Former Pres Obama tweeted this nonsense.

    "As we grieve the children of Uvalde today, we should take time to recognize that two years have passed since the murder of George Floyd under the knee of a police officer, His killing stays with us all to this day, especially those who loved him."
    "In the aftermath of his murder, a new generation of activists rose up to channel their anguish into organized action, launching a movement to raise awareness of systemic racism and the need for criminal justice and police reform."

    Amazing how liberal dems cannot pass up any opportunity to continue to stir racial division.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #9

    May 26, 2022, 09:37 AM
    Republicans: anti-abortion but pro-gun.

    What is wrong with this picture?!
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #10

    May 26, 2022, 10:08 AM
    there is nothing that says that being pro-gun = pro- murder . whereas if you are pro -abortion you are pro- murder
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #11

    May 26, 2022, 10:13 AM
    Well said, Tom.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #12

    May 26, 2022, 10:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    there is nothing that says that being pro-gun = pro- murder . whereas if you are pro -aborion you are pro- murder
    Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun.

    What use are they anyway, especially assault rifles? My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making. Guns should not exist. Look what guns have done in Ukraine -- e.g., 200 Ukranians who were hiding in a basement were shot and killed. The innocents always pay the price.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,505, Reputation: 1860
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    #13

    May 26, 2022, 11:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Republicans: anti-abortion but pro-gun.
    And Democrats: Anti-gun and Pro-choice.
    Do you see the dichotomy in all of this...

    There really are some subjects that should be approached with a holistic and pragmatic outlook rather than merely opposing everything the other political party has to say.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #14

    May 26, 2022, 11:55 AM
    Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun.
    What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?

    What use are they anyway, especially assault rifles? My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making. Guns should not exist. Look what guns have done in Ukraine -- e.g., 200 Ukranians who were hiding in a basement were shot and killed. The innocents always pay the price.
    We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.

    How many of the 200 poor Ukranians had guns themselves?

    Many centuries ago the Mongols swept across Asia and murdered tens of thousands of innocents. The Romans did likewise (look up the siege of Jerusalem) as did the Goths and Huns and many others. They had no guns, but they did have evil in their hearts.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #15

    May 26, 2022, 12:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?
    Gun ownership at age 21 or even older, not 18. Certificate of proof of firearms classes on proper use. Annual classes in order to renew the certificate. No sales of AR-15s or other assault rifles. I have more but will rest for now.
    We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.
    He's had a wealth of training and experience.
    How many of the Ukranians had guns themselves?
    Oooooo, so the Russians shot and killed them in self defense.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #16

    May 26, 2022, 12:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?
    Let me make a list.
    We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.
    He has been well trained.
    How many of the 200 poor Ukranians had guns themselves?
    Lemmee, stick you into a dank, dark basement for a few weeks, then let a hoarde of Russians with automatic weapons bash their way in. Hmm.... Who has the upper hand?
    They had no guns, but they did have evil in their hearts.
    The Uvalde shooter had evil in his heart and an assault rifle in his hands.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #17

    May 26, 2022, 12:36 PM
    He's had a wealth of training and experience.
    Yeah. Really sounds like it. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, or you've just made up another story.

    Oooooo, so the Russians shot and killed them in self defense.
    Uhm...no. The point is that the Ukrainians were unarmed and completely unable to defend themselves.

    Gun ownership at age 21 or even older, not 18. Certificate of proof of firearms classes on proper use. Annual classes in order to renew the certificate. No sales of AR-15s or other assault rifles. I have more but will rest for now.
    You mean like the certificate your hubby had when he almost killed your neighbor? How will a class on the "proper use" of a firearm stop mass shootings? Do you think those killers were simply unaware that shooting elementary school children is something that should not be done?

    Finished with the legal opinion yet?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #18

    May 26, 2022, 12:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Curlyben View Post
    There really are some subjects that should be approached with a holistic and pragmatic outlook rather than merely opposing everything the other political party has to say.
    But, unfortunately, neither side is willing to rationally discuss the issues with the other side.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #19

    May 26, 2022, 12:38 PM
    Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun.
    My take is that almost all of them were in "gun free zones" as if that is some kind of panacea . Real solutions would be to have armed guards properly trained to guard schools ;and conceal and carry trained teachers . There would be many volunteers for both, Many private guards are ex-police and military . I can guarantee that they would not have waited for some school official to find the key to the locked classroom that the shooter was barricaded in as he plugged away at children.

    Where were the cops ? They let him kill for almost an hour !!!!! They waited until they were about 40 strong and still did not enter until the border control showed up and took the shooter down.

    I've said it many times . You cannot rely on the police when your life is at stake .When seconds count they are minutes away to draw chalk marks around the victims

    What are guns for ? WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE FROM PREDATORS BE THEY CRIMINAL OR GOVERNMENT DESPOTS .

    My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making.
    Sorry that is a lack of competence and an irresponsible gun owner .

    Guns should not exist.
    welcome to utopia ,a perfect imaginary world
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #20

    May 26, 2022, 12:44 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    shooting elementary school children is something that should not be done?
    Thus, we need more mental health assistance. And parenting classes. And two-parent families where the parents are responsible and worthy.

    Why don't schools have locked metal exit and entrance doors?

    Why are there guns in the first place?

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