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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #1

    Aug 12, 2021, 05:05 AM
    "Leave No Child Behind" becomes "Leave Every Child Behind"
    Oregon Gov. Kate Brown privately signed a bill last month ending the requirement for high school students to prove proficiency in reading, writing, and arithmetic before graduation.
    So Oregon announces that reading, writing, and math are no longer important. But they will, as I understand it, enforce new testing centered around cell phone proficiency and transgender pronouns.

    https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-govern...154100667.html
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #2

    Aug 12, 2021, 05:42 AM
    shocking !! What are tax payers paying for if there are no minimal standards ? Reading and math to be replaced with making Molotov cocktails and umbrella tip sharpening .....basic skills . Kind of surprising . You can't teach Communism or the 1619 project curriculum without basic reading skills ..... or are all lessons in video and crayon drawings ?

    Pink Floyd --- We Don't Need No Education - YouTube
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #3

    Aug 12, 2021, 06:25 AM
    Kids have mobile phones and youtube these have replaced schooling for the great unwashed
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #4

    Aug 12, 2021, 09:03 AM
    And I've been hoping schools will add courses in penmanship, art and music appreciation, hands-on art and music, first aid, personal finances, et al.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #5

    Aug 12, 2021, 09:29 AM
    Then you'll be happy to know that Mississippi offers all of those courses. The school I was in was a relatively small school and we taught them all.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #6

    Aug 12, 2021, 09:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Then you'll be happy to know that Mississippi offers all of those courses. The school I was in was a relatively small school and we taught them all.
    Grade schools AND high schools? Required or electives?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #7

    Aug 12, 2021, 09:51 AM
    Depends on the course you're referring to.

    Here's the problem schools face. Fifty years ago, schools met for about 7 hours a day, 180 or so days a year. Now schools still meet for about 7 hours a day, 180 or so days a year, but the demands made on school curricula increases and varies practically every year. Everyone has their pet projects. Some are understandable such as computer courses. There has been an on-going emphasis on increased academic rigor for several decades now. I graduated in 71 (1971, not 1871) with 18.5 credits. In our state now you cannot graduate with fewer than, if I remember correctly, 24 credits. Kids are taking algebra 1 in 8th grade to get a jump on grad requirements. So there is an ever increasing demand on time, but time is still 7 hours, 180 days. The powers that be add demands but only rarely remove anything. Special ed requirements are incredibly more complex than even thirty years ago. Many more sports are played and the arts are more emphasized. That's all fine and good, but at some point some of the supposed smart reformers need to wake up and realize that schools are pretty well saturated. There is no more money to throw at the problem. If you want to add things, tell me what you want to take away to free up resources for all of those new courses. Or point out time and resources that are presently being wasted that could be redirected. I can tell you that in our state, that would be very hard to do.

    And none of that, of course, excuses the actions being taken by the liberal dems in Oregon to not just lower, but even remove academic standards. It's inexcusable.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #8

    Aug 12, 2021, 10:14 AM
    What would the daily schedule be for, say, a fourth grader?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #9

    Aug 12, 2021, 10:22 AM
    Students at my old school spent 50 minutes in PE three times a week. They also spend 50 minutes in art once a week and 50 minutes in music once a week. This was K-4. Cursive writing is a required course in elem. The rest of the day was packed with math, language, science, social studies, lunch, breaktime, library once a week for 50 minutes, remedial work in math and reading, computer work, remedial work for dyslexic kids, talented and gifted courses, special ed courses, and all of that "et al" that you mentioned earlier. By the end of the day, students and teachers alike are tired. They have worked hard. It's largely pleasant, even enjoyable, but still work.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #10

    Aug 12, 2021, 03:42 PM
    You sure do spend a lot of time in school and yet you learn so little
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #11

    Aug 12, 2021, 03:45 PM
    Yet another unbiased, non-bitter remark from the little Pacific country. Turns out that, as usual, you have your own set of problems.

    Australian school children are well behind a host of other countries when it comes to reading, mathematics and science, according to a new report.

    The Progress in International Reading Literacy Study has revealed that a quarter of Australia's year 4 students failed to meet the minimum standard in reading for their age.

    Australia ranked 27th out of 48 countries in reading, with its mean score similar to that recorded by New Zealand, Poland and Lithuania.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-...s/4422532?nw=0
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #12

    Aug 12, 2021, 03:54 PM
    Yes well our children arn't left behind where it matters

    College Graduation Rate
    1. Australia – 77
    2. Belgium – 74
    3. Greece – 70
    4. Latvia – 70
    5. Lithuania – 70
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #13

    Aug 12, 2021, 04:43 PM
    27th out of 48th. Yeah, that's really great.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #14

    Aug 12, 2021, 05:47 PM
    What about college vs. vocational education?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #15

    Aug 12, 2021, 06:13 PM
    Once again JL is focused on the wrong statistic you should research drop out rates your country has a high drop out rate, it is useless keeping kids at school longer to teach them things that many will never use
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,799, Reputation: 5431
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    #16

    Aug 12, 2021, 06:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    it is useless keeping kids at school longer to teach them things that many will never use
    What are several good ways to keep kids in school, to make learning worthwhile to them and maybe even fun?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #17

    Aug 12, 2021, 06:46 PM
    Itís the wrong stat because it shows how your Ed system is underperforming?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #18

    Aug 12, 2021, 07:45 PM
    Our education system doesn't have dropouts
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #19

    Aug 12, 2021, 08:04 PM
    Oh? Then what do you call the 23% who DON'T graduate from college?

    And how do you explain this if there are no dropouts???

    Drop out rates vary throughout different locations in Australia. Students that attend school in remote communities have a higher chance of not completing year 12 (56.6%), whereas students that come from a wealthy background share an average completion rate of 90%.[11] These remote schooling programs serve primarily indigenous students. Indigenous students to have lower rates of completion: the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous year 12 graduates is over 40 percentage points. As a result of this substantial difference, lower socioeconomic students who drop out are considered at-risk-students and are ultimately prone to unemployment, incarceration, low-paying employment and having children at early ages.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_out

    Might also point out that our high school completion rate (92%) is higher than yours (85%). Hmmm. That would mean our dropout rate is lower. Oh well. Maybe you should look before you leap.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ion_attainment
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #20

    Aug 12, 2021, 08:13 PM
    I call it a more successful program than yours which has a 50% dropout rate. Now you want to bring up drop out rates for indigenous students, how many of your indigenous students drop out. We are well aware of the disadvantage of our indigenous remote area populations but we have implemented specific programs to help these people and none of them live in poverty except by choice. These peoples also retain their traditional languages and so have to jump hurdles you have no idea about because they are not written languages and there is no tradition of reading, maths or science among them. Once again I suggest you focus on fixing your own problems since you have nothing practical to contribute to solving ours

    As to those who don't complete higher education, I suggest they are mismatched to the discipline they are being instructed in

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