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paraclete · Nov 21, 2010, 11:40 PM

You have all seen the furore about intrusive searches/xrays at airports. Do you think we have become a little paranoid and used the excuse of finding one suspect in millions of travellers as an excuse to implement draconian measures.
US airport security pat-down protest | Passenger strips off | TSA
Now personally I find the circumstances of this incident ridiculous on a number of levels and I can't help but think american homeland security, etc, take themselves a little bit too seriously, Is this because they are desperate to justify their existence? Even such an exaulted person as the first lady has said she would not like to submit to these procedures, so if it isn't good enough for the leaders, it should not be good enough for the people, that is true democracy. Why should I have to teach democracy?

Wondergirl · Nov 21, 2010, 11:55 PM

The former security chief for El-Al was interviewed the other day and said his airline has a set of questions asked of each pre-flight passenger. So far, he said, this seems to help the airline figure out who might be dangerous and who isn't. I didn't hear the logistics of it, but it certainly sounds better than what's going on. We're being punished for wanting to be safe.

From therightscoop.com --

You've probably seen this guy before, and the reason we keep seeing him is because the government can't do anything right. Isaac Yeffet worked as the Security Chief for El Al Airlines in Israel and claims they know how to stop terrorists and they can do it and stay out of your anal cavities. In fact the technology they use to prevent terrorists from boarding and blowing up airlines is so advanced that they can just walk up to you and determine if you are a terrorist. What pray tell is this technology?

Talking. Doing mini-interviews with passengers that may be exhibiting questionable behaviors.

WOWZA!!!!!

Just think for a second. If you were a bomber and you knew that there was the potential that some agent would come up to you and start talking while in the airport, it might make you think twice before even entering. Most people are so nervous when they are about to do something like blowing up an air plane, that all it takes is a single conversation to reveal themselves and their dastardly deeds.

But talking isn't all they do. They know who you are before you even come to the airport. They've done their research. They know everything they need to know, and they never have to look at you naked unless they've already determined that you are a threat.

I'd go for that system any day of the week.

paraclete · Nov 22, 2010, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The head of El-Al was interviewed the the day and said his airline has a set of questions asked of each pre-flight passenger. So far, he said, this seems to help the airline figure out who might be dangerous and who isn't. I didn't hear the logistics of it, but it certainly sounds better than what's going on. We're being punished for wanting to be safe.

And of course Israel and its airline has has many more real threats to deal with than the american bound airlines. The israeli's might, of course, use racial, and dare we say, religious profiling, but then that is more realistic that searching everything that moves. I truly think that upsetting a few Muslins is not too high a price to pay than inconveniencing everyoneelse, who by the way are innocent bystanders. What happened to observation and honing in on anyone behaving in a suspicious manner.

The reality is you are safe and not one airline passenger has been saved by these intrusive searches.Suspect had explosives hidden in underwear | Video | 7online.com

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 03:31 AM

How many passengers does El Al carry annually (3.6 million)compared to American carriers (hint O'Hare annually serves almost 45 million passengers) ? Their interview system would not work here... Nor would the cost associated with their security procedures.
http://www.jpost.com/Business/Busine...aspx?id=193216

But talking isn't all they do. They know who you are before you even come to the airport. They've done their research. They know everything they need to know,

In principle I agree with this approach... But there are time constraints with this ;especially with the profiling restrictions here . Keep in mind;El Al caters mostly to Semite passengers from Israel. Yes indeed they know who they are before they come to the airport.

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 04:26 AM

The reality is you are safe and not one airline passenger has been saved by these intrusive searches

Correct . This is a reactive approach. After 9-11 we couldn't carry sharp objects.After the shoe bomber we had to take off our shoes. Another incident involved carrying liquids on board... Last year's underware bomb attempt prompted the new measures.

What you miss is that in each case .The jihadist penetrated the security perimeter ,and it was luck and passenger quick reaction that prevented a worse incident... but make no mistake ;in each of these incidents ,the attack was successful if only because they were able to get the weapon on board.

I don't like the brutish way these screenings are being conducted.. I am not convinced they aren't necessary.

excon · Nov 22, 2010, 05:44 AM

Hello:

Me? Having been in a pretty secure place, and having noticed it filled with drugs and other contraband, I became convinced that anybody can slip anything through security checks that have become mundane... Knowing that, I suggested that we go after the enemy instead of us. Maybe if we had Bin Laden in the slammer, or dead this thing would be over... But, George W. Bush had other things on his mind rather than ending the war...

So, Bin Laden is doing his thing, we are still being treated like the enemy... It's really kind of STUPID, costs a LOT of money, and DOESN'T protect us one iota. I was asked the other day if I flew. I said NO. I ain't STUPID.

excon

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 05:54 AM

If Bin Laden was killed the whole movement would just go away ? I don't think so.

excon · Nov 22, 2010, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

If Bin Laden was killed the whole movement would just go away ? I don't think so.

Hello again, tom:

Well, I didn't simply mean killing one dude.. If you remember, I was for leveling Afghanistan. I'm not a guy who goes to war to pu$$y foot around with it... Nope, I'm not. I'm in to WINNING, and WINNING big. Had we done THAT, it might be over. In fact, I think it would be.

But, it's becoming clear that the public is NOT going to put up with this unconstitutional instrusion, and it's going to end anyway - for the WRONG reasons, and we'll be vulnerable once again... Yup, it's STUPID.

excon

paraclete · Nov 22, 2010, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

What you miss is that in each case .The jihadist penetrated the security perimeter ,and it was luck and passenger quick reaction that prevented a worse incident....but make no mistake ;in each of these incidents ,the attack was successful if only because they were able to get the weapon on board.

.

I don't miss the point Tom the jihadist penetrated security on each instance because each time the attack was different. Being reactive isn't the answer. The israeli's are proactive and much more successful. The terrorists are succeeding because they are succeeding in spreading terror and causing disruption. Do they really care that the bomb didn't go off? So you will continue to be PC and search everyone intrusively when you know that the person you are after has a high probability of avoiding your methods. What you are doing is using fear as a tactic and not very successfully

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 06:40 AM

Oh I agree with the profiling and aggressive prosecution of the war . Quess we'll have to wait until Quatas is attacked to see how the Aussies respond.

The terrorists are succeeding because they are succeeding in spreading terror and causing disruption

I don't know anyone who wants to be blown out of the sky . When questioned the vast majority of Americans approve of the "inconvenience " . Then again ;most Americans don't fly.

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2010, 06:41 AM

I wonder how much trade and tourism business is being lost over this. This TSA uproar is news all over the place. I personally know of two couples who have changed their vacation plans to go elsewhere (Bermuda) instead of flying to the US as they had originally intended.

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 06:50 AM

I wonder how much trade and tourism business is being lost over this.

The Airlines needed a gvt bailout after 9-11 .

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2010, 07:15 AM

You know what I'm staggered by? 13,322 people died from falls in the USA in the year 2000, and yet there is no Federally-mandated physical coordination test prior to the ascent of a ladder or stairs. Such a test is imperative to protect the citizens of America from attacks by gravity, and should be implemented immediately. If you are either unable to pass the exam or unwilling to take it, you have the right to opt out in favor of using our nation's great system of elevators, in which you can reach many of your desired destinations. Remember that using stairs and ladders is a privilege, not a right.

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 07:20 AM

Funny:rolleyes:

Accidents happen .Air travellers accept the possibility that their plane can crash land . What they don't accept is the possibility that they will be killed by a preventable jihadist attack .

excon · Nov 22, 2010, 07:27 AM

Hello again,

Me? I'm struck by NK's remarks... IF this had been handled as a CRIMINAL case from the get go, Bin Laden and his minions would be dead or in jail, we wouldn't have started TWO unnecessary wars, 1,000's of people would still be alive, there would be NO Gitmo, and we'd STILL be free to fly - or perhaps EMAIL a friend in privacy...

But, we went a different direction... We declared war on OURSELVES, and we brought ourselves to our knees. We may NOT recover... Bin Laden might win (with our help)..

excon

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2010, 07:30 AM

Yeah good luck getting extradition of OBL from his state sponsored Talban run Afghanistan. Even Clintoon understood AQ had to be treated as a war enemy .

excon · Nov 22, 2010, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah good luck getting extradition of OBL from his state sponsored Talban run Afghanistan.

Hello again, tom:

I'm not talking about sending a polite letter.. Our civilian forces ARE involved in warlike action ALL over the globe. The CIA has militaristic forces. So does the DEA. I'll bet there are others. Look. If we can target an American citizen for assassination, then surely we could knock off Bin Laden.

In the beginning, Al Quaida was a rag tag bunch of desert rats. We Could have took 'em out. But, we went in another direction... In fact, the direction we went, in my view, acted as the BIGGEST recruitment tool Al Quaida could have hopped for.

Yup. We declared war on ourselves, and we're winning. The war against Al Quaida?? That one we're losing.

excon

speechlesstx · Nov 22, 2010, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Correct . This is a reactive approach. After 9-11 we couldn't carry sharp objects.After the shoe bomber we had to take off our shoes. Another incident involved carrying liquids on board....Last year's underware bomb attempt prompted the new measures.

We'll all just have to fly naked after a cavity search.

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2010, 07:52 AM

Must suck to be in a country where you are scared all the time.

excon · Nov 22, 2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We'll all just have to fly naked after a cavity search.

Hello again, Steve:

I must remind you that cavity searches are routine in the joint - yet lots and lots of contraband gets through. No matter HOW intrusive we are, we will NOT stop a dedicated terrorist. While we RE act to what they do, they're already figuring out their next move. As a matter of fact, the next attack will probably come from a woman with a prosthetic breast. Certainly, we KNOW searching there is going to be stopped. Even IF we made ourselves into a POLICE STATE, we're not going to stop a dedicated terrorist.

excon