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    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 499, Reputation: 54
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    #1

    Jul 12, 2018, 01:03 PM
    Impeachment
    As Trump continues to dismantle NATO which is critical to the peace of the world and has been for 70 years, and as Trump continues to cater to the Putin enemy who is determined to bring down the United States and its allies, it is time to talk seriously about impeachment.

    No longer should decent people do nothing about the daily lies that come out of the mouth of the evil person running America and, with the assistance of his sycophants, ignore the dismantling of policies that have been in place for decades.

    Can anyone with even a speck of goodness in their heart watch as Trump carries out the horror of taking children away from their families and either refusing, or unable, to bring them together - even at the order of a court?

    It is past time to act on the criminality of Donald Trump. It is high time to impeach him and remove him from the presidency.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #2

    Jul 12, 2018, 01:14 PM
    If we impeach because we don't like a decision, all Presidents will be impeached. Anarchy will ensue. This is not a pro-Trump statement. This President is not conventional nor will he stand by on something he disagrees with. The issue of foreigners walking into this country illegally was not caused by Trump. If you don't like the law, change the law. It's a rational argument.

    "Dismantle NATO" might be Pelosi'esk drama.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 499, Reputation: 54
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    #3

    Jul 12, 2018, 03:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver2011 View Post
    If we impeach because we don't like a decision,
    We impeach because Trump is a crook, a liar, a grifter who has violated the emoluments rule, an obstructor of justice and a treasonous president who threatens to withdraw from NATO to appease our enemy Putin.

    all Presidents will be impeached. Anarchy will ensue.
    This statement is mind-bogglingly ignorant. ALL PRESIDENT WILL BE IMPEAChED. Huh ?? ANARCHY WILL ENSUE. Huh ?? Get a high-school history book. Previous presidents have been impeached without ALL being impeached and without anarchy ensuing.

    This is not a pro-Trump statement.
    It sure smells like one.

    This President is not conventional
    You're just finding that out? "Not conventional" is a nice way of saying nutcase. But this is not a pro-Trump statement. No, not much.

    The issue of foreigners walking into this country illegally was not caused by Trump.
    How about reading what I wrote? Separating children from their families was DIRECTLY caused by Trump. DIRECTLY! He walked it back because the entire planet was disgusted by what he did. [/QUOTE]

    If you don't like the law, change the law. It's a rational argument.
    Only people like you distract from the child horrors by changing the subject to "the law". "It's a rational argument", you say. Precisely the strategy used by Trump - when you get caught in an obvious evil, change the subject. But, of course, you're not a Trump supporter!

    "Dismantle NATO" might be Pelosi'esk drama.
    When in doubt and you don't have an answer, just bring up Pelosi - or Clinton. It has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion but it's part of the Trump strategy. Good that you're not a Trump supporter.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #4

    Jul 12, 2018, 03:11 PM
    Thank you. Your argument is without merit and it reeks of MSNBC. I did not vote for Trump. I have never or would I ever vote for a Clinton. This was the first time in my voting life that I haven't voted for President. While I appreciate what he has done for the economy and my industry, his approach to people and issues disgusts me. A President has to be someone who brings people together and he is anything but. But unlike you I can appreciate the good and the bad without articulating what I heard on MSNBC. Now would be a good time to take a cheap shot about the fact that the Clintons should be in jail for life, but I won't go there.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 499, Reputation: 54
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    #5

    Jul 12, 2018, 04:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver2011 View Post
    Thank you. Your argument is without merit
    I notice you did not have a single rational thought to challenge my "without merit" argument. Typical!

    I have never or would I ever vote for a Clinton.
    Who said anything about Clinton? You people simply can't open your mouth without bringing up Clinton.

    While I appreciate what he has done for the economy
    He has done NOTHING for the economy. As any economist will tell you if you cared to seek the truth, Trump inherited an economy that was already recovering due to Obama's actions. Even right-wing economists will tell you that. What he HAS done vis-a-vis the economy is to dangerously toy with tariffs in a game he is not remotely qualified to play. Already signs of his destructive games are beginning to show, but it's a bit early to see the whole picture.

    I can appreciate the good and the bad without articulating what I heard on MSNBC.
    WHAT good? You make claims but do not back them up with a single thing. You badly need to educate yourself. You need more than ad hominems. And how did MSNBC get into this? Would you prefer FOX?

    Now would be a good time to take a cheap shot about the fact that the Clintons should be in jail for life, but I won't go there.
    There you go again - that Clinton thing! So glad you decided not to take a cheap shot that the Clintons should be in jail for life. You won't go there, you said. You're not at all clever but you are comical.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #6

    Jul 12, 2018, 04:04 PM
    What is this; a wish list? Trump putting the squeeze on allies doesn't warrant impeachment, it warrants applause when it falls in the right places. Trump meeting Putin doesn't warrant impeachment, it warrants applause to reduce dangerous rhetoric. Bull in a china shop diplomacy seems to work, strangely enough. Sometimes allies need to be reminded who is providing the umbrella. However, there should be consideration of why that umbrella is necessary. Very soon China will be shipping goods through Russia to Europe so Donald will have more to be upset about as the Germans get their VW from China. Has a certain irony, doesn't it
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,052, Reputation: 10852
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    #7

    Jul 12, 2018, 05:16 PM
    Currently there are no grounds for impeachment in my opinion, of this president, AT THIS TIME, but that could change after the Mueller investigations concludes, or we get more facts from the various other lawsuits and court cases that he is or may be involved in. Certainly seems like a lot of them I have to say.

    I think more disturbing is the antics of certain house members both in open hearings, and person conduct and closed interviews that clearly by design makes them sycophants of the Dufus in question. It's silly season folks and the gloves came off last year. For my money I think I trust Peter Strzok and his record better than ANY repub in the house right now. Interesting they point out his BIAS, and ignore their OBVIOUS bias.

    No comment on the "Typical" Dufus antics overseas which clearly was unacceptable on many levels as what would you expect from a proven lying, cheating, loudmouth Dufus! Am I biased? Darn Skippy.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #8

    Jul 12, 2018, 05:25 PM
    Am I biased?
    I thought that was a given, tal, however donald has been very opiniated in his sweep through Europe, without Kim to taunt he must find someone else and the two looser ladies of Europe seem ideal targets
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #9

    Jul 12, 2018, 06:10 PM
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #10

    Jul 12, 2018, 06:21 PM
    NATO countries commit to spend 2% of GDP on the common defense . How many of them actually honor that ?
    USA 3.6% of GDP and the libs here complain about that all the time .
    UK 2.1%
    Poland 2.0%
    Greece 2.4%
    Estonia 2.1%

    THAT's IT folks !

    21 nations in NATO do not live up to their commitment and some rich countries are pathetically behind .
    Germany 1.2 %
    Canada 1.3%

    I think NATO still has a role . But it's time for the nations of Europe to pony up .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #11

    Jul 12, 2018, 06:42 PM
    In what way has he catered to Putin ? By stationing thousands of US troops in Poland ? By US leading NATO war games in the Baltics ? By wacking Russian "mercenaries " in Syria ? By adding new sanctions to Putty's cronies in Russia
    after the U.K. poisoning
    ? By threatening sanctions against Saudi Arabia and Qatar for considering buying Russian arms ? By trying to get Germany to end it's energy relationship with Russia via a pipeline ? By pressuring the Saudis to pump more crude which would lower world wide oil prices which would harm Russia's economy. By taking a hard line against the Russia alliance with the Mullahs in Tehran?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #12

    Jul 12, 2018, 07:14 PM
    I think he is right, Putin is a competitor and that is the way to view him. Russia isn't in a position to dominate the world but he does have a sphere of influence and he will stir the pot. Tehran is a Russian client, has been for a long time. The Saudi have bought a lot of US arms but maybe there is something cheap the US don't have. The oil card has been played before but it also harms the Saudi
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 499, Reputation: 54
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    #13

    Jul 12, 2018, 07:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    NATO countries commit to spend 2% of GDP on the common defense . How many of them actually honor that ?
    USA 3.6% of GDP and the libs here complain about that all the time .
    UK 2.1%
    Poland 2.0%
    Greece 2.4%
    Estonia 2.1%

    THAT's IT folks !

    I think NATO still has a role . But it's time for the nations of Europe to pony up .
    The 2% figure is a GOAL to be reached by 2024 - SIX YEARS FROM NOW!

    Come on, Tom, you knew that.

    (BTW, clueless Donald has upped it to 4% - he thinks NATO is a Manhattan condo development.)
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #14

    Jul 12, 2018, 08:00 PM
    even the emperor blasted NATO members for not living up to their commitments .

    "If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. "....

    "The situation in Ukraine reminds us that our freedom isn’t free, and we’ve got to be willing to pay for the assets, the personnel, the training that’s required to make sure that we have a credible NATO force and an effective deterrent force," "So one of the things that I think, medium and long term, we’ll have to examine, is whether everybody is chipping in.".....
    "I want to take this opportunity to commend Greece for being one of the five NATO allies that spends 2 percent of GDP on defense, a goal that we have consistently set but not everybody has met,” “Greece has done this even during difficult economic times. If Greece can meet this NATO commitment, all our NATO allies should be able to do so,”


    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #15

    Jul 12, 2018, 09:17 PM
    The cost of these commitments is massive borrowing or taxes, Greece would make an insignificant contribution in a conflict but it has long borders to police. You have to consider that some of these economies are bankrupt, not FREERIDER Germany but others like Bulgaria and therefore front line states might benefit while paying a little less. Trump is right about the germans they are gaming the system. A number of poor states were allowed into EU and NATO for convenience and strategic convenience, Trump fails to recognise this
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 499, Reputation: 54
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    #16

    Jul 13, 2018, 03:11 AM
    Reacting to Obama being voted best modern president, Trump is enraged and sinks deeper into madness by tweeting that polls show him to be the most popular Republican, even polling higher than Lincoln (sic). He probably polls 100% in Russia.

    As a guest of the UK, Trump undermines Prime Minister May by declaring he may "do an economic deal" with the EU instead of the UK after Brexit. He is single-handedly destroying a centuries-old alliance with the United Kingdom. This is perfectly in tune with Russian foreign policy, right after dismantling NATO which Trump is in the process of accomplishing.

    Before he isolates America further, he must be impeached.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    "If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. "....

    "The situation in Ukraine reminds us that our freedom isn’t free, and we’ve got to be willing to pay for the assets, the personnel, the training that’s required to make sure that we have a credible NATO force and an effective deterrent force," "So one of the things that I think, medium and long term, we’ll have to examine, is whether everybody is chipping in.".....


    Thank you for quoting Obama who has surveyed as the greatest modern president.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,052, Reputation: 10852
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    #17

    Jul 13, 2018, 05:12 AM
    The Dufus taking his racist attitude to Europe is a total abomination. You can parse this anyway you want to, but tying immigration policy, here and abroad to loss of culture is stirring the pot of emotional animus and combined with his landlord collecting the rent he wants to be raised tactics, is a disgusting and shameful public display as ever been witnessed. Combined with his previous words and actions on the domestic front and the farce of watching his sycophants perform on live TV yesterday, it's small wonder that calls for impeaching the lying buffoon in chief pervade from the left.

    Be aware though that this isn't about Europe, NATO, Immigration, or anything else except keeping his own power base here in America in line behind him. He can't rule the world without a congress that has his back. That's the end game folks, keeping what he got, and the right wing loony base is in power.

    That's his only hope for survival, because he needs the cover of politics to enrich himself at the government teat, and get away with it. The rest of the show is just NOISE. You got it right Clete, The Trump Circus is probably the greatest show on EARTH. Let's not confuse it with real governing, or seeking mutually agreeable solutions to real problems.

    Sorry but you righties are but a tough coalition of desperate conservatives, disenfranchised racists, and truly partisan hacks looking for legitimacy, and attention. As biased as you claim EVERYBODY else that's against you! I know, feels good to be paid attention too doesn't it?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #18

    Jul 13, 2018, 05:33 AM
    You are obscessed, however you are right in that Trump can't present you to the world in this manner or they will learn the truth about the nation of meglomaniacs who would rule the world. It is no wonder the world arms itsself
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,052, Reputation: 10852
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    #19

    Jul 13, 2018, 06:42 AM
    Obsessed is such an exaggeration to my personal campaign to speak truth to power and following FACTS. I will admit it's far more enjoyable to throw rocks at The Dufus, than defend Obama from the loony right, a noisy minority, as opposed to us centrist reasonable people who look for reasonable solutions.

    It's my DUTY, and responsibility as an American citizen to vote my interest that moves us forward on a good path and I just don't think that's what The Dufus and his sycophants are doing. To remain silent is not an option either, so obsession is an inaccurate description of my postings, since it's a lying, cheating, loudmouth bully that I am talking about.

    Patriotic would be more to the point, and I do try to keep it about FACTS. The Dufus has a history of those facts which backs up my contention he is a self aggrandizing moron, who uses power to bask in its glory while he loots coffers with the help of the ignorant. Hmmm maybe I am obsessed with ridding the land of this threat of freedom and security, and unity that we have thrived on slowly but surely in this country.

    I apologize Clete, you are correct, I am obsessed with standing against the Dufus and his bully boys.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #20

    Jul 13, 2018, 01:51 PM
    As a guest of the UK, Trump undermines Prime Minister May by declaring he may "do an economic deal" with the EU instead of the UK after Brexit. He is single-handedly destroying a centuries-old alliance with the United Kingdom. This is perfectly in tune with Russian foreign policy, right after dismantling NATO which Trump is in the process of accomplishing.
    Trump told the truth about May and the way she is screwing up Brexit. She is days away from a vote of confidence and that has nothing to do with Trump or the Russians .I doubt if the Tories would back her in a new election .

    No ;what is destroying England and the EU is uncontrolled migration . With Brexit they have a chance to get control .

    At least she is taking a hard line about the Russians poisoning Brits .

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