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    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #1

    Mar 22, 2008, 11:19 PM
    A government for the people.
    Asked about two thirds of Americans' opposition to war, Cheney says, 'So?'

    Here is your trusted public servant exposing our governments true attitude towards the American people.

    Watch the vidieo.

    The Raw Story | Asked about two thirds of Americans' opposition to war, Cheney says, 'So?'
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,768, Reputation: 5430
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    #2

    Mar 22, 2008, 11:28 PM
    The White House later said Cheney didn't say "so," but the video proves he did. So it's not enough that the VP ignores continued public unhappiness? The White House lies to defend the VP?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #3

    Mar 23, 2008, 01:24 AM
    "I think we cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations of the public opinion polls "

    Yes ;leaders do not make policy based on public opinion polls.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #4

    Mar 23, 2008, 05:02 AM
    Thank goodness for context:
    "The White House later released a transcript which shows that Cheney's first response wasn't "so" as ABC presented on its broadcast.

    "When first informed by Raddatz that "two-thirds of Americans say [the Iraq war] was not worth fighting," the vice president responded, "They ought to go spend time, like you and I have, Martha. You know what's been happening in Iraq. You've been there as much as anybody. There has, in fact, been fundamental change and transformation, and improvement for the better. I think even you would admit that."

    This could be titled, or sub-titled, "Driveby Media v. Cheney".

    Does the media ask Americans what they think about paying taxes? What is the approval rating of the IRS? What about the approval rating of Congress?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7692
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    #5

    Mar 23, 2008, 05:23 AM
    And yes, I guess "SO" this is of course why the US is a republic where the government can and do not always follow the majority but do things for the benfit of the county. And for course I am sad that 100 percent or people don't dislike war, So of course when it is for the national defense, and the protection of our nation.

    And as George mentioned merely people not liking something has little effect on it, such as the IRS, Congress, and many other things.

    So to answer "so" is not polite but very true, I guess he should have said that the country has a obligation to do things for the safety of the US and the World, but "so" sota says it all.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #6

    Mar 23, 2008, 06:54 AM
    We have and enjoy a free press, and it is an adversarial press, which is fine.
    So why does Billary not release their tax returns? Because their campaign understands fully well there will be a tsunami of adverse public opinion about the sources of their income.
    Fr_Chuck is exactly right in that our three branches of government have not been chosen to follow the will of public opinion, as the U.S. is not a democracy; they are entrusted with and are given a presumption of doing what is right.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7692
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    #7

    Mar 23, 2008, 06:59 AM
    Yes, the idea that we are a democracy, which appears to be taught in school now adays for some reason, is just not true, there are many safe guards to protect the government from the will of the people, one is the process to elect a president, they are not elected by popular vote for example, look at the process of the super delegates for the democratic party, to protect the party from the will of the people if they go after someone that is not in the best interest of the party

    Which is why Supreme Court Judges are appointed not elected. Which is why we don't vote on almost any issues, but allow the laws to be passed by those elected.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #8

    Mar 23, 2008, 07:32 AM
    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cart...080320_low.jpg
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #9

    Mar 23, 2008, 07:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950
    Fr_Chuck is exactly right in that our three branches of government have not been chosen to follow the will of public opinion, as the U.S. is not a democracy; they are entrusted with and are given a presumption of doing what is right.
    Hello George:

    I don't disagree.

    However, being a fellow who agrees with Ronald Reagan when he said, the problem IS government, I would change your last sentence to read thusly:

    "... they are given the powers of government, we hope they use them wisely, and we're going to watch 'em closely to make sure they do.

    Personally, I don't PRESUME that anyone in government is doing ANYTHING right.

    excon
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #10

    Mar 23, 2008, 09:04 AM
    I agree with the Padre. He was just being his rude self. His Momma named him right. She took one look at the baby and said, "Now that's a Di#K if I ever saw one!"
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #11

    Mar 23, 2008, 10:15 AM
    The presumption is not a blank check. Did you catch any of the oral argument on C-SPAN this weekend concerning the total ban on handguns in Washington D.C. "The city's 31-year-old law has prevented most private citizens from owning and keeping handguns in their homes...The District of Columbia reported 143 gun-related murders last year. In 1976, when the handgun ban was enacted, the district's medical examiner said 135 homicides were firearm-related." Looks to me as though the D.C. crowd has exhausted their use of the presumption, and I am very hopeful that the Supreme Court justices appointed by our president will throw out this senseless law.
    Supreme Court hears arguments on gun ownership - CNN.com
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7692
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    #12

    Mar 23, 2008, 02:52 PM
    Yes I would like to see some change in our government (less of it) but I don't see that happening with any of the current canidates for office.
    I am afraid this election will be a choice between bad and just plain sad.
    ** you can decide which you think is which
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #13

    Mar 24, 2008, 10:02 AM
    Not the best of responses to a question but then I haven't seen the video of the interview. I have seen the transcript:

    Q And how long do you do that? There are no consequences.

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: You do it as long as you have to until you get it right. You don't quit because it's hard.

    Q So there are no consequences, it just goes on until -- as long as it lasts? You let the Iraqis go and go and go, even --

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: What if we quit two years ago or three years ago?

    Q So it could be 10 years?

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't know how long it's going to take. I do know we have to get it done. And if it takes a long time, that doesn't make it any less worthwhile. This has been a hard-fought, difficult, challenging thing for us to do, when you think about what we've done here. We've gone in and toppled one of the world's worst dictators, liberated 25 million people, helped them hold three national elections and write a constitution. They've been through some very difficult times themselves, but we kept at it, because it's the right thing to do. And when we needed to make a major decision, as the President did a year ago January, he made that decision and committed more troops. When we needed to modify our strategy to win on the ground from a security standpoint, we did it. And General Petraeus, his forces performed magnificently with a new counterinsurgency doctrine. He could have quit two years ago, and today Iraq would be chaos; al Qaeda would control large swaths of the country; it probably would be a safe haven for terrorists; certainly it would have been a much worse situation from the standpoint of the Iraqi people.

    It's hard to go into a country that has never experienced democracy and expect to be able to flip a switch and have it turn overnight. But it is turning. They do have a democracy today. They have basic --

    Q Two-thirds of Americans say it was not worth fighting.

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: They ought to go spend time, like you and I have, Martha. You know what's been happening in Iraq. You've been there as much as anybody. There has, in fact, been fundamental change and transformation, and improvement for the better. I think even you would admit that.

    Q Let me go back to the Americans. Two-thirds of Americans say it's not worth fighting, and they're looking at the value gain versus the cost in American lives, certainly, and Iraqi lives.

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: So?

    Q So -- you don't care what the American people think?

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls. Think about what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had paid attention to polls, if they had had polls during the Civil War. He never would have succeeded if he hadn't had a clear objective, a vision for where he wanted to go, and he was willing to withstand the slings and arrows of the political wars in order to get there. And this President has been very courageous, very consistent, very determined to continue down the course we were on and to achieve our objective. And that's victory in Iraq, that's the establishment of a democracy where there's never been a democracy, it's the establishment of a regime that respects the rights and liberties of their people, as an ally for the United States in the war against terror, and as a positive force for change in the Middle East. That's a huge accomplishment.

    Q Are you certain of victory?

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: You can't, say -- get up some morning and say, gee, the polls are critical of what we're doing, and quit. It doesn't work that way.
    Overall I think he handled the interview well, but you guys can crucify him for one word taken out of context. Just don't whine about holding Obama and his pastor accountable.
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #14

    Mar 24, 2008, 09:40 PM
    So?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,768, Reputation: 5430
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    #15

    Mar 24, 2008, 10:02 PM
    Cheney's "So?" is right there in your face.

    But the point he then made is valid, that the government, being our loving parent looking out for us in the best possible way, shouldn't depend on public opinion to make decisions. After all, this isn't a democracy, is it.
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #16

    Mar 24, 2008, 10:44 PM
    So?
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #17

    Mar 25, 2008, 12:05 AM
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    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #18

    Mar 25, 2008, 03:37 AM
    Cheney On 4,000 Dead Americans: They Volunteered

    Wrapping up a nine-day overseas trip to Iraq, Vice President Cheney was asked, in an exclusive interview with ABC News, about the effect on the nation of today's grim milestone of at least 4,000 U.S. deaths over the five-year Iraq war.
    Noting the burden placed on military families, the Vice President said the biggest burden is carried by President Bush, and reminded ABC news that the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan volunteered for duty.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #19

    Mar 25, 2008, 03:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Cheney On 4,000 Dead Americans: They Volunteered
    You may have a case of "John Kerryitis"; Cheney is saying the American soldiers are patriots, and their service is sacred, not profane as you suggest.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #20

    Mar 25, 2008, 04:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950
    You may have a case of "John Kerryitis"; Cheney is saying the American soldiers are patriots, and their service is sacred, not profane as you suggest.
    Hello George:

    Nope, it was dismissive of them.

    excon

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