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speechlesstx · Jun 20, 2012, 08:53 AM

After virtually ignoring the Fast and Furious scandal the media is showing up. It took Holder asking for and getting executive privilege on the documents his DOJ has refused to provide the Oversight Committee.

What do they have to hide??

NeedKarma · Jun 20, 2012, 09:04 AM

So what's your point.

speechlesstx · Jun 20, 2012, 09:15 AM

You didn't understand the question?

tomder55 · Jun 20, 2012, 09:46 AM

They should still move to a motion of contempt of Congress. Holder ,as a cabinet officer confirmed by the Senate ,is not subject to executive privilege . In fact ;the only way I see it being invoked is if the President is personally involved . Executive privilege protects communications with the President ,not the AG unless the President was also involved . If Fast and Furious is a national security issue ;then Holder is still subject to contempt charges and perjury charges .

speechlesstx · Jun 20, 2012, 10:51 AM

Exactly, and it should raise even more eyebrows since Holder and his DoJ have repeatedly claimed the White House knew nothing about F&F. Sounds like as much an admission that the White House did know something after all.

paraclete · Jun 20, 2012, 02:24 PM

Plausible denyability but is there anything the White House doesn't know about after all it micromanages hits on terrorists

speechlesstx · Jun 20, 2012, 02:52 PM

"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency." -Barack Obama

paraclete · Jun 20, 2012, 03:19 PM

Which law was that? Sounds like he is in touch with the blarney stone to me

tomder55 · Jun 20, 2012, 04:29 PM

I made an incorrect statement when I wrote :In fact ;the only way I see it being invoked is if the President is personally involved . Executive privilege protects communications with the President ,not the AG unless the President was also involved . The President doesn't have to be directly involved .He can invoke Executive Privilege for people under his command without him having personal involvement .

But since the documents pertain directly to Holder's perjury in testimony before Congress ,then invoking the privilege is tantamount to a cover up. Ask Nixon how far that got him .
The House Oversight Committee today voted to move contempt vote to the House floor .

speechlesstx · Jun 21, 2012, 08:19 AM

Via Powerline:

In Espy, the court said:

The deliberative process privilege does not shield documents that simply state or explain a decision the government has already made or protect material that is purely factual….

The deliberative process privilege is a qualified privilege and can be overcome by a sufficient showing of need. … For example, where there is reason to believe the documents sought may shed light on government misconduct, ‘the privilege is routinely denied,’ on the grounds that shielding internal government deliberations in this context does not serve ‘the public’s interest in honest, effective government.’”

Also from Espy:

“Not every person who plays a role in the development of presidential advice, no matter how remote and removed from the President, can qualify for the privilege. In particular, the privilege should not extend to staff outside the White House in executive branch agencies. Instead, the privilege should apply only to communications authored or solicited and received by those members of an immediate White House advisor’s staff who have broad and significant responsibility for investigation and formulating the advice to be given the President on the particular matter to which the communications relate. Only communications at that level are close enough to the President to be revelatory of his deliberations or to pose a risk to the candor of his advisers.”

I don't think he has a legal leg to stand on, let's see if Obama can make the political argument or if this is just more stalling.

talaniman · Jun 21, 2012, 05:19 PM

This should be good, the next round of the right wing loony bin against the President. So what's new? You guys have been slinging mud, and bad mouthing the guy for 3 and a half years, and this is just another bone to keep the rest of the loonies outraged, and engaged and maybe they will vote for you guys.

speechlesstx · Jun 22, 2012, 06:29 AM

Yet again another issue on which both sides should agree but you call it mudslinging and us loony. Good to see you care about the rule of law, getting to the bottom of Brian Terry's death and why we let thousands of guns walk to our neighbor to the south to be used to kill who knows how many more.

speechlesstx · Jun 22, 2012, 10:49 AM

Just watch Jon Stewart's take on F&F.

paraclete · Jun 22, 2012, 04:11 PM

Not allowed to watch that speech what did he say

speechlesstx · Jun 23, 2012, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

not allowed to watch that speech what did he say

You'd have to watch it, Clete. He skewers Obama and Democrats pretty good.

paraclete · Jun 23, 2012, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You'd have to watch it, Clete. He skewers Obama and Democrats pretty good.

I can't watch it the site won't open to me

NeedKarma · Jun 23, 2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

i can't watch it the site wont open to me

It's geoblocked to anyone outside the US.

paraclete · Jun 23, 2012, 07:08 AM

Yes they live in their own little world

excon · Jun 23, 2012, 10:32 AM

Hello:

As usual, the right wing is outraged about the WRONG things...

During Fast & Furious, the ATF LOST over 2,000 weapons in Mexico. 57,000 Mexicans have been KILLED due to the drug war. I wonder how many Mexicans died at the hands of ATF.. I wonder WHY nobody cares.

Yes, I too mourn the loss of ONE American. But, Holder didn't do it. Obama didn't do it. The ATF did it. Why aren't any of THOSE guys in jail? Why aren't you interested in investigating them?

So, you'll excuse me if I happen to be outraged about it too. I just don't share YOUR outrage.

excon

paraclete · Jun 23, 2012, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

As usual, the right wing is outraged about the WRONG things...

During Fast & Furious, the ATF LOST over 2,000 weapons in Mexico. 57,000 Mexicans have been KILLED due to the drug war. I wonder how many Mexicans died at the hands of ATF.. I wonder WHY nobody cares.

Ex no one cares because they don't want to offend the right wing gun lobby. It's all right to kill mexicans with american guns, after all that less mex's that can cross the border so you could look on it as border defense

Yes, I too mourn the loss of ONE American. But, Holder didn't do it. Obama didn't do it. The ATF did it. Why aren't any of THOSE guys in jail? Why aren't you interested in investigating them?

Ex no one mourns the loss of life in a war, these people are expendiable, that is why it is called a war so there could be casualities of war and investigations are not necessary.

I think the actions of the ATF here are deplorable and reprehensible and someone should be held to account and that person is the person who authorised the operation and since executive privilege is involved we know where the buck stops

So, you'll excuse me if I happen to be outraged about it too. I just don't share YOUR outrage.

Excon

Less outrage more action