G'day all,

Its been getting exciting around here lately and I like it. Keep it up. Nothing like an election year to get the argumentative juices flowing.

Most of us have been here a while now and I think we all pretty much know where one another stands. There are those of us who aren't too fond of Bush and his administration and call him on it. We say what a fool we think he is and give example of it. Then there are those of you who defend him all the way and won't hear a bad word said about the man or the Republican circus.

The those of us who aren't too fond of Bush get accused by you righty's of being brainwashed by liberal media and its double standards. You accuse us of being anti-american, unpatriotic and treasonous. You claim that for 8 years you have had to listen to the left whinge and complain about everyhting wrong with America and its Government. You cry foul about dirty politics and vicous rumour mongering with no facts presented. You scream from the roof tops regarding the lefts double standards and lack of integrity. As far as your concerned everything the left says is full of lies and deceit and with the soul purpose of destroying the Repubs. You must wonder how we sleep at night.

It got me thinking. Over the past few months a young inspirational black man is making a strong push to become the next president of your great country. You guys don't know him and you don't like him. You're scared of him. At every opportunity you get you attack him. You spread vicous rumours about him. Provide links to blatant bias media reports. Question his faith based on snipets of his pastors sermons. Question his integrity. Question his wife's integrity. Accuse him of lying when he answers the questions you want answering. You call him liar.

You basically act in a way that you claim to hate so much about the left. You hate the lefts double standards but practice it just the same.

What's that called? Double double standards?? Or is quadruple standard? Or maybe double squared standards? I don't know... But how are you any different to what despise so much?

Guess what... around two months ago Hillary said she had a bombshell she was going to drop about Obama
(if 'n when she felt too threatened by his winnings).
The media rarely uses what the Republicans 'complain' about. The Republicans discuss many things that the media refuses to even touch. The media is only going after Obama because Hillary wants it... and what Hillary wants Hillary gets.

It is not the Republicans attacking Obama... at least this time around... thank Hillary for that.

She is running scared and so she is going after him.
Trace how the media got Rev. Wrights sermons.

Why would I vote for someone I don't know ? I want to know the truth about him so I question what I see as a major contradiction... that he is a "uniter "who belongs to a church that believes in segregation of the races. I pointed out the distinction between historic black theology and the newer brand of black LIBERATION theology . I even pointed out the writings of the authors who influenced that philosophy. For that I was told my views were the equivalent of a holocost denier and I had no appreciation of the black experience and therefore am unqualified to express my thoughts . As far as I am concerned that is a discussion ender.

Should we give Obama a free pass to the most important position in our country ? All Presidential candidates go through the same scrutiny . Obama and his supporters have tried to dismiss out of hand any question raised because regardless it is his platitudes that is important . It is not the man but his rhetoric ;he is an " inspirational black man " and as if that is the sum of the man ;that should be enough for us. As far as his flowery rhetoric is concerned all it does is sell progressive liberalism in a new package.

Has little to do with right or left, it is more perhaps lies about rasist teachings and beleifs,

Thanks for your post but I think you missed my point. No problems! :)

By no means should you give Obama a free pass to the presidents job. Just like the President shouldn't get a free ride just because he is Pres (and a republican one).

I dismiss your claim that Obama lacks substance and is rhetoric only. Many here have presented endless website links, newspaper articles, speeches by Mr Obama and so on that clearly lay down his policies. The address all the questions you ask. But rather than you present an argument against the man based on these poilicies, you go after his faith and his relationship with another man whom you also don't know other than some 30 second snippet from youtube). Your better than that Tom. At least I though you were.

But I'm glad you agree with me Tom with respect to people in elected positions not getting a free ride. So I can expect to stop hearing you whinge and moan whenever a negative article is presented about the repubs & Bush. From now on I won't hear you claim that is simply bias left media making up stories. There will be an end to your double double standards? Thank you.

Care to expand please Father Chuck?

Basically my point is the infighting is taking over whatever the neocons believe or do not believe. What the neocons think is pretty much backseat now.

Skell-

I've got a long week of work ahead of me so I can't stick around and befuddle the anti-Obama establishment. Yes! I could go and continue to dismantle each one of their less than educational presented posts, and sometimes, perhaps when I find the time and get bored again I'll just do more of that. Fact is that for some Americans, mostly Republicans fear of breaking status quo, and older generations that are entrenched in politics as usual, they're certainly scared of anyone that doesn't appear the same as themselves, mainly Caucasian. Caucasian presidents is all this country has ever known. Did you notice that Republicans inject little positive things about their candidate "John McCain." There's a good reason for that. Realistically there is very little difference between McCain and GW Bush. And they know with Dubya they're standing on a wooden leg up to their knees in termites. These ignorant people had grandparents (and g-grandparents) that enjoyed Minstrel Shows, and now attempt to paint Obama that publicly lectured the differentiation of Black Theology, a social justice, and Wrights extreme views, a black man that suffered at the hands of segregation, as one. Many of these anti-Obamist live in a very small world. You'll read posts of supposed stock controversy and other childish innuendo desperate to accuse Obama of many things, but pay it little attention. The world is changing and I want better because I know we are capable. Others though will eventually catch up or slowly fade to little more than footnotes in history. Have a great day!

From Bobby's response above : There you go skell . More examples of personal attacks. Want me to give you the litany of all the names and things that have been said about me since I have been on these forums?

When I expose the biased media I back it up with evidence and the same is true with Obama . If you can produce the whole sermon by Rev Wright go ahead . I'm glad to listen to it... But you can't... so how can you then claim I take it out of content ? Prove to me I'm wrong.

You forgot those of us in neither of those categories, but I understand, many in the first category tend to ignore the things we say that show we're not a member of the second category.

Here we go again, only two categories of people here. "We" don't all accuse all of "you" of being "anti-american, unpatriotic and treasonous." In fact, one of those things that has been ignored repeatedly by a certain someone here is the fact that some, if not most of us "righty's" defended Obama against the rumors concerning his patriotism.

If on both sides we can ease up on the all inclusiveness - that everyone is either here or there with nothing in between - we might get somewhere. I know tom and myself have both commented on the fact that there are worthy aspects of liberalism and have commended certain liberals from time to time. I have seen you Skell, and others with whom I usually disagree find common ground on occasion and have commended them for it. I recognize it doesn't make one extreme just because we disagree or take jabs at the other side. BUT, it has been my observation for a long time now that many on the left seem to expect us to sit back, take our beating and submit to their superior insight regardless of the facts... and also seem surprised when we're offended by their personal attacks.

You're right about this, he is inspirational and I don't know him. That alone is reason to dig deeper. Picture a Bush nominee going through a congressional hearing with this Democratic congress, he or she is going to be brutally, and publicly scrutinized up one end and down the other. Should we expect less for a man running for president who is such an unknown quantity as Obama?

It isn't about "hating" Obama for me, I've said I liked the guy probably half a dozen times here this year, but you don't spend 20 years in a church with your "friend" and "mentor" and not know he's kind of "rough" as Obama acknowledged long before this broke out. When it did, you'd have to be mindless NOT to question the judgment and integrity of a man who has run on themes such as "words matter" and "judgment to lead" as the candidate that can bridge the racial divide.

Being the guy that first posted the excerpts of Wright's sermons, allow me to take us back to that point. After Bush made a visit to Bob Jones University during the 2000 campaign, Democrats made "speeches decrying bigotry and racism" as they "introduced a resolution...condemning the college for intolerance and criticizing its many visitors for staying silent on its anti-Catholic views," hoping "to turn the university's policies into so much of a political mudbath that any candidate who has ever spoken there will end up vulnerable."

Which Democratic congressmen stepped up to condemn Wright's racist, anti-American rants? Which introduced a resolution in congress condemning such intolerance? As far as I know nobody has, and the left has in fact told us we should instead be sympathetic - which makes the double standard in this case solely on the left. We are the ones not allowing for exceptions to racist bilge because of the "black experience." It doesn't matter what color the offender is, racism is racism in my eyes, intolerance is intolerance and hate is hate. I am not going to give the guy a break because he's black unlike so many on the left... I'm not one of those white guys that feels the need to assuage my guilt for America's racist past. I've never been a racist - except in the minds of some angry and intolerant liberals.

Oy vey! The finagle chutzpah of your shpiel, thanks for the schmooze.

See what I mean, Skell. McCain's barn is full of one trick mules.