Hello:

We're nearing a showdown. Neither side is blinking, because they THINK when the crap hits the fan, they can blame the OTHER guy, and solidify their POWER!

Who's right? Vote once, and your vote will NOT be anonymous.

excon

How about both sides fault, the political system is set up to blame the other party but keep control and get re-elected.

The other of course is that the US today is very divided, there is no controlling group or idea that is accepted to fix the problems.

I'm hoping the Repubs will realize that not raising the debt ceiling will come back to bite them. Not only the middle class and poor will suffer but also the big corporations (won't they?).

Hello Padre:

Yeah, I should have given you a both parties choice... Damn...

excon

Why have a debt ceiling at all ? The whole point of it was to limit Federal spending . Clearly if you just raise it as spending ever increases then it is not performing it's function.

This 'chicken with it's head cut off 'panic over the approaching deadline is good scare tactics. But it will not be a Mayan calendar event if it comes and goes . The government still brings in a fortune in revenue . Geithner would just have to reprioritize spending to make sure debt service is not neglected . There would then be no default and the rest of the revenue gets 'pay as you go '. This year revenues are expected to be $2.2 trillion,and the interest payments $300 billion.So long as the government has the money to pay off the debt interest then it is not in default.

Besides ,this deadline is complete a fabricated bogus date. 1985 the deadline came and went and then Congress raised the ceiling 3 months later... 1995 almost 5 months after the deadline .

To answer the question of the poll. It will be the Dems fault. They are holding fast on tax increases; and Sen Shumer has already admitted that the President has every intention of ignoring the deadline under the 14th Amendment's 'Validity of Public debt' clause. The Democrats are now contending the debt ceiling is unconstitutional under that clause .

Hello tom:

Hmmm... That's not my understanding.. The Dems are using the clause to IGNORE congress, because the Constitution REQUIRES that we pay our debts. Following the Constitution, Obama will authorize the treasury to PAY our legal debts, thereby AVOIDING a default.

excon

There is nothing about the debt ceiling that prevents Treasury from paying existing debt . That's the easy part . Debt payments are only 6% of the budget.

But that isn't what is being floated . We don't need new debt to pay off our obligations . What we do need new debt for is to continue the running of the government at it's current spending levels.

Therefore the debt ceiling has nothing to do with the 14th Amendment . It's very intent was to control government spending .If the debt ceiling is contantly raised (74 times in the last 50 years ) then why even have it ?

Hello again, tom:

So, you think NOT raising the debt limit will DO what congress ISN'T able to do?? If that's so, then I'd do it too..

But, I don't really think that's what it's about... I admit the economics are beyond me... But, they're not beyond the market.. If what you say is true, the markets will react favorably.. If not, they'll crash..

We'll see, won't we, because we're actually going to get there?

excon

yup ,that's the only reason to have a debt ceiling . If I was an investor I'dve lost confidence long before now. The difference between us and the PIGS is that we have a currency to devalue ;and we haven't been shy about that .

Looks like the Senate Repubics are going to blink .
Republicans May Take ?Mini? Debt-Ceiling Deal - Bloomberg

Hello again, tom:

What LOOKS like a Republican cave in is really a trap for the Dems... I just think they should just pass it WITHOUT a peep or conditions, like they did for Bush 7 times . They're playing fast and loose with our economy, and WE, the people are going to LOSE. Those f***ing politicians don't care.

Yeah, it's the Republicans... I don't know why they think it'll do 'em good this time. They tried it before and it didn't work then.

excon

McCain: "the American people didn't want their taxes raised."

The thing is, no Dem is trying to raise taxes for 98% of the "American people."

To say I'm confused about this is an understatement. The Government has a budget, which authorises expenditure, how then does it require further approval to do what it has already resolved to do? This is like saying I'll give you conditional approval, you can do it provided you can borrow the money to do it, but you can't borrow the money unless I approve it. Ridiculous convoluted politics designed to prevent a government from doing what it was set up to do.

It's like this: The federal government has bought, in good faith, a house and a car and a summer cottage. The mortgage payments and the car payment are due August 2. Will the government pay the mortgage payments and the car payment? Article 4 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution says yes, it will; the Republicans say the government doesn't have to.

That's what I don't get, how does a third party get to say anything about the obligation?

Oh, the Republicans probably want the US to pay its bills, but are arguing about HOW the US gets the money to pay the bills. They don't want any of it to come from the wealthiest 2% of the citizens. They want it to come from the middle class and the poor, especially the latter whom they consider a pox on the nation.

What is convoluted is that a Congress ,that is madated by the Constitution with the power of the purse, needs to pass a law that constrains it from doing it's job, because it doesn't think it is disciplined enough to wield that power responsibily .

But that is exactly what a debt ceiling is ;an artificial constraint Congress imposes on itself because it can't control it's impulse to spend recklessly ,and grow the government out of control. The more I think about it ;I agree it is most likely an unConstitutional provision it impose on itself and future Congresses.

Much better if the American people would impose controls on them by adopting a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution .

Again I ask ;what is the purpose of a debt ceiling that can be changed any time spending approaches that ceiling ? What a charade!

Trouble is that ceiling gets higher and higher. Prices have risen since 1787. I remember when you could buy a pack of cigarettes for quarter from the vending machine in the hospital waiting room.

Was that in 1787? The idea of a ceiling is to give you cover but this ceiling covers nothing. What is also ridiculous is that a government can print more money without restraint, the Federal Reserve can decide on some quantitative easing anytime, so leave the ceiling where it is and pay the bills with lovely new bills

I made that point earlier. Spending is so out of control that they want to do both ;devalue the currency and raise the ceiling..

What the Dems are not saying is that what is waiting in the wings ;if the Senate Dems get their way ,is another round of Keynesian pump priming that will again make the ceiling irrelevant .
This is not about inflation adjusting .It's about the uncontrolled, ever expanding Federal Government . It's really sad that when someone talks about just controlling the rate of growth they are portrayed as wanting draconian cuts . There are whole depts of the Federal Government that needs to be shut down and dismantled .