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    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #61

    Sep 3, 2009, 09:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine View Post
    Did you read the part about a counselor telling people they SHOULD make choices to limit their care by filling our DNRs, DNIs, living wills, etc.
    No I didn't see that part because it's not in there. I did see where the individual has the power to make choices as they always have.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #62

    Sep 3, 2009, 09:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ETWolverine View Post
    Did you read the part about a counselor telling people they SHOULD make choices to limit their care by filling our DNRs, DNIs, living wills, etc.
    Hello again, El:

    No, I couldn't find it. If it's there, why didn't you post THAT - the SMOKING GUN??

    excon
    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
    Senior Member
     
    #63

    Sep 3, 2009, 09:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, El:

    No, I couldn't find it. If it's there, why didn't you post THAT - the SMOKING GUN??????

    excon
    That would be in 1233 sections 1-4.

    And the reason I haven't posted here is because I posted it BEFORE and you already ignored it.

    Elliot
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #64

    Sep 3, 2009, 09:25 AM
    Hello again, El:

    If you can't prove what you say, what you say is bunk. If I ignored it before, it's because it doesn't say what you say it says...

    Look, even the well read and respected tomder said it's not there... What's up with that?

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #65

    Sep 3, 2009, 10:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    It's the individual's preference, not anyone else's decision.
    Apparently that's no longer the case in the UK.

    Sentenced to death on the NHS

    In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.

    Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.

    But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.

    As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis” in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

    “Forecasting death is an inexact science,”they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death “without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

    “As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

    The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

    The scheme, called the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP), was designed to reduce patient suffering in their final hours...

    In 2007-08 16.5 per cent of deaths in Britain came about after continuous deep sedation, according to researchers at the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, twice as many as in Belgium and the Netherlands.
    No death panels, just a "death pathway." Maybe that will give the Dems a new angle to work this in. What could we call it, Obamanasia? Barackin' down the highway of death?
    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
    Senior Member
     
    #66

    Sep 3, 2009, 10:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, El:

    If you can't prove what you say, what you say is bunk. If I ignored it before, it's because it doesn't say what you say it says....

    Look, even the well read and respected tomder said it's not there.... What's up with that?

    excon
    Ah... but I did prove it. And you ignored it.

    But the rest of the American population ISN'T ignoring it. They HAVE read it and they've seen it. Which is why Obamacare is going to die a stillborn death. Obama can claim it doesn't say what is says all he wants... it's too late. People have already read it.

    Stick a fork in it... it's done. One way or another.

    If he still manages to pass it (he does have 60 votes in the Senate), it'll get overturned in 2010 when Congress goes back to the Republicans... even if they can't pass a bill to reverse it, they can just defund it.

    If he DOESN'T pass it, he will become the first Preident in American history to become a lame duck after only 9 months in office. And Congress will STILL go to the Reps in 2010. And so will the Oval Office in 2012.

    He created this situation. He made his bed. Now he can lay in it.

    Elliot
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #67

    Sep 3, 2009, 02:07 PM

    Hey NK, is this what we can expect, too?

    Health cuts likely deep

    By Derek Spalding, Daily NewsSeptember 2, 2009

    The latest B.C. budget maintains a commitment to increase health-care spending, but not enough to avoid service reductions in many communities.

    Ministry of Health funding will increase nearly 18% in the next three years, reaching $15.7 billion by 2011-12. Medical Services Plan premiums will jump 6% on January 2010, the first hike since 2002.

    The increase will equate to a maximum of $3 a month for single people or $6 per family.

    The Hospital Employees' Union was quick to criticize, saying that health authorities will have to absorb the cost of MSP premium hikes. And, as demand on health services is expected to grow faster than funding, the province's health authorities are slashing spending to balance their books.

    Repeated requests to speak with Vancouver Island Health Authority CEO Howard Waldner or any management staff were rejected on Tuesday. Communication staff members said details of the authority's budget will not be released for two more weeks, despite an earlier projection for the end of August.

    Other health authorities have already revealed their plans. The Fraser Health Authority expects to cut surgeries, seniors' programs and services for the mentally ill to make up a budget shortfall of up to $160 million. This shortfall comes, despite a $96-million increase in base funding from the provincial government.

    The head of Health Sciences Association of B.C. attacked the government's budget. President Reid Johnson said "British Columbians, who rely on our health care system, will pay more for less."

    Health authority budget cuts will reduce access to services, Johnson explained. "In July, Health Minister Kevin Falcon delivered an edict to health authorities to slash their budgets. Those cuts will result in dramatic service reductions - including diagnostic services like lab, X-ray, MRI, ultrasound and nuclear medicine," Johnson said.
    Not enough money? Let's cut surgeries... and services to seniors and the mentally ill. They must not be high enough on the Canadian comparative effectiveness scale.

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