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    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #1

    Jan 13, 2009, 11:00 AM
    Calling Al Gore: Where are you?
    "BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - Residents of the upper Midwest bundled up or just stayed inside Tuesday as a wave of bitterly cold air barreled south out of the Arctic, following on the heels of a fast-moving blizzard.
    Some schools closed because of the cold and temperatures hit the single digits as far south as Kansas and Missouri.

    The coldest air spilled across the Canadian prairie into the Dakotas and Minnesota. Grand Forks, N.D., dropped to a record low of 37 degrees below zero Tuesday morning, lopping six degrees off the old record set in 1979, the National Weather Service said.

    In northern Minnesota, it was 35 below zero in Roseau and 36 below in Hallock, with wind chills down to 45 below in Hibbing. Just to the north, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, also hit minus 36, according to Environment Canada.

    In North Dakota, the Minot area got 6 inches of snow, on top of about a foot that fell late last week, and Bismarck collected 4. Bismarck, Fargo and Grand Forks all broke snow records for December, each with more than 30 inches."
    Sharp cold wave shocks upper Midwest, temps to -36
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #2

    Jan 13, 2009, 11:24 AM
    Um, yeah. I read this morning something about expecting the coldest winter in years. Oh, and didn't he invent the internet? Does he know how much the internet contributes to global warming? I also understand he's made a fortune off of Google, which some say is also not very eco-friendly.
    JSingle911's Avatar
    JSingle911 Posts: 35, Reputation: 8
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    #3

    Jan 13, 2009, 11:42 AM

    While my mind is not yet made up on what all factors are contributing to climate change, local weather anomalies mean nothing by themselves, and are a fractional indicator of what is happening on a global scale.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #4

    Jan 13, 2009, 11:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JSingle911 View Post
    While my mind is not yet made up on what all factors are contributing to climate change, local weather anomalies mean nothing by themselves, and are a fractional indicator of what is happening on a global scale.
    Upon what factors have you determined that "climate change" is other than an 'anomly'? Couldn't it be a convenient lie?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #5

    Jan 13, 2009, 11:51 AM

    The biggest hoax since Y2K

    Even the Huffpos are becoming skeptics
    Harold Ambler: Mr. Gore: Apology Accepted
    JSingle911's Avatar
    JSingle911 Posts: 35, Reputation: 8
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    #6

    Jan 13, 2009, 12:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    Upon what factors have you determined that "climate change" is other than an 'anomly'? Couldn't it be a convenient lie?
    Climate change, as I see it, refers to any change in the global climate, whether by man or natural forces. So when I refer to it, I refer to the last 6 billion years of meteorological changes the Earth has undergone. Whether we are at fault for or contribute to any change in the actual climate of the Earth is precisely what I hold in question. I will never underfund research into issues that might affect us. Lots of bogus theories and "hoaxes" have turned out to be true, and many we thought were true turned out to be false. I am confident that the answers will come in time, while there is still time to do something about it (or not do anything, depending on what the situations calls for). But only if our best minds work on the issue.
    TexasParent's Avatar
    TexasParent Posts: 378, Reputation: 73
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    #7

    Jan 13, 2009, 01:21 PM

    Very cold in North America this winter doesn't mean someone isn't sweating their nuts off somewhere else to a greater degree.

    When the ice caps start melting, there is cause for concern. Call it what you will, Global Warming or Earth Cycles, it certainly warrants continued investigation.

    I grew up in Toronto back in the 60's and I remember snow being on the ground for months, because it wouldn't melt; the temps stayed under freezing for a long period. Also there were outdoor skating rinks where the ice would stay frozen for a couple of months. However, over the years the snow melted within weeks, then days and the outdoor ice rinks are a thing of the past as the ice melts to often.

    I have see and felt this climate change in the Toronto area; I knew about warmer winters over time from my personal experience long before I ever heard of climate change.

    Yet now it's happening on a massive scale, the northwest passage for the first time may or is passable in the winter without ice breakers. Greenland is losing it's ice a record rates.

    I don't see why the 'right' wants to politicize this other than the fact that they think it will force us to loose our competitive edge against countries that couldn't give a flying nut about climate change in the pursuit of profit.

    We owe it to our kids to look at this seriously and do whatever it takes before our stupidity hurts our planet in ways we can't imagine.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #8

    Jan 13, 2009, 01:30 PM

    For the first time in four decades from Atlantic to Pacific, from Windsor just south of Detroit to Ellesmere Island, just south of the polar icecap all of Canada experienced a white Christmas this year..
    TexasParent's Avatar
    TexasParent Posts: 378, Reputation: 73
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    #9

    Jan 13, 2009, 01:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    For the first time in four decades from Atlantic to Pacific, from Windsor just south of Detroit to Ellesmere Island, just south of the polar icecap all of Canada experienced a white Christmas this year ..
    I certainly hope it continues, because I really miss Canada being white and cold at Christmas.

    I really hope you are right and the trend is now reversing itself and Al Gore and all like him were wrong.

    However, I will reserve judgement for 5 more years and see if the nice cold Canadian winters return.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #10

    Jan 13, 2009, 01:39 PM

    Ah now, Pravda says we're headed for a new ice age, global ice coverage had a tremendous rebound, and the definitive experts on the weather - the Old Farmers Almanac - suggests we're headed for global cooling.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #11

    Jan 13, 2009, 01:49 PM

    I guess we can thank our lucky stars Paulson and Bernanke weren't advising Bush on Kyoto and warming.
    TexasParent's Avatar
    TexasParent Posts: 378, Reputation: 73
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    #12

    Jan 13, 2009, 02:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Ah now, Pravda says we're headed for a new ice age, global ice coverage had a tremendous rebound, and the definitive experts on the weather - the Old Farmers Almanac - suggests we're headed for global cooling.

    Oh goodie... can you say, "burn baby burn". I think I'll take an extra trip in my SUV today and 'floor it' after every stop to celebrate! Hmmm... nevermind, I now live in Texas and there more than enough heat to go around... hmmm... can you say export? Cause y'all can have some of that heat we have in the summer, we don't need it all, I promise you.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #13

    Jan 13, 2009, 02:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasParent View Post
    Oh goodie....can you say, "burn baby burn". I think I'll take an extra trip in my SUV today and 'floor it' after every stop to celebrate! Hmmm....nevermind, I now live in Texas and there more than enough heat to go around...hmmm...can you say export? Cause y'all can have some of that heat we have in the summer, we don't need it all, I promise you.
    Um, Tex, I'm in Texas, too. It was 18 degrees last night, looking for a whopping 19 degrees tonight. You can send some of your heat up to the Panhandle.
    TexasParent's Avatar
    TexasParent Posts: 378, Reputation: 73
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    #14

    Jan 13, 2009, 02:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Um, Tex, I'm in Texas, too. It was 18 degrees last night, looking for a whopping 19 degrees tonight. You can send some of your heat up to the Panhandle.
    Maybe we could get some windfarms installed down here in southeast Texas and blow some your way... :D
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #15

    Jan 13, 2009, 03:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
    The coldest air spilled across the Canadian prairie into the Dakotas and Minnesota. Grand Forks, N.D., dropped to a record low of 37 degrees below zero Tuesday morning, lopping six degrees off the old record set in 1979, the National Weather Service said.
    Hello George:

    You think you're presenting evidence that refutes Al Gore. But you're not. What you present IS evidence of global warming...
    I know, I know, you think global warming means it's going to get warm... Nope.

    If you would just check out some of this stuff first... But, that's probably too much to ask of ideologues who get their information from talk radio.

    excon
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #16

    Jan 13, 2009, 03:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello George:

    You think you're presenting evidence that refutes Al Gore. But you're not. What you present IS evidence of global warming....
    I know, I know, you think global warming means it's gonna get warm.... Nope.

    excon
    "You think you're presenting evidence that refutes Al Gore. But you're not. What you present IS evidence of global warming....
    I know, I know, you think global warming means it's gonna get warm.... Nope."
    Thanks, excon, we do need liberals to explain what 'cold as hell' really means.
    But I'm a quick read: the sun is setting, but we should call it sun-up.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #17

    Jan 13, 2009, 04:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasParent View Post
    Maybe we could get some windfarms installed down here in southeast Texas and blow some your way...:D
    Call T. Boone ;)
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #18

    Jan 14, 2009, 06:47 AM
    George... the believers can take any weather event and provide proof that it is the result of man made climate manipulation . This cold spell was already covered in "The Day after tomorrow ".. Melting ice caps (which are now at pre-1971 levels of thickness by the way ) pump fresh water into the Atlantic .Then the gulf stream shifts causing huge northern hemisphere hurricanes (50 ft waves taking out the Statue of Liberty etc. ) . At the eye of these hurricanes extreme cold air gets down drafted causing the next ice age. Didn't you see that on the Weather Channel over the weekend ?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #19

    Jan 14, 2009, 06:56 AM
    Hello Righty's,

    Do you know that there are STILL people who think the Earth is flat?? You don't really want to be one of THEM, do you?? Hmm. Maybe you DO.

    So, tell me, Mr. Righty smarty pants... I suppose you think our atmosphere can take all the junk we can throw at it WITHOUT responding... I don't know WHY you would think such drivel... except, maybe your guru's on right wing radio tell you to think that...

    I actually, CAN'T imagine ANYONE thinking we can just put TONS and TONS of garbage into the air WITHOUT ANY consequenses... I can't imagine that... But, I couldn't imagine any American would support torture either, and I was wrong...

    excon
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #20

    Jan 14, 2009, 07:33 AM

    More from the Flat Earth Society:
    Let's put a few numbers out here, the empirical discussion and see what we can make of it. First is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has very good records on temperatures, average temperatures in the United States, dating back to 1880. And here's what these numbers look like. You've all seen those. But help us all -- the audience and most of all me to get through this, they show the warmest years on record, 1998, 2006, and 1934. 2008 was cooler, in fact the coolest since 1997. It's intriguing to see that graph there. The graph we're looking at showing some question that the warming trend may be just a snapshot in time. The global temperatures by NOAA are seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001. The ten warmest years have all occurred since 1995.

    So let me start, if I may, Joseph, your reaction to those numbers. Do you quibble with what they represent?

    D'ALEO: Yes, I do. In fact, if you look at the satellite data, which is the most reliable data, the best coverage of the globe, 2008 was the 14th coldest in 30 years. That doesn't jive with the tenth warmest in 159 years in the Hadley data set or 113 or 114 years in the NOAA data set. Those global data sets are contaminated by the fact that two-thirds of the globe's stations dropped out in 1990. Most of them rural and they performed no urban adjustment. And, Lou, you know, and the people in your studio know that if they live in the suburbs of New York City, it's a lot colder in rural areas than in the city. Now we have more urban effect in those numbers reflecting -- that show up in that enhanced or exaggerated warming in the global data set.

    DOBBS: Your thoughts on these numbers. Because they are intriguing. They are a brief snapshot admittedly, in comparison to total extended time. I guess we could go back 4.6 billion years. Let's keep it in the range of something like 500,000 years. What's your reaction to those numbers and your interpretation?

    JAY LEHR, HEARTLAND INSTITUTE: Well, Lou --

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.

    DOBBS: Go ahead, Jay.

    LEHR: Lou, I'm in the camp with Joe and Fred Singer and Dennis Avery, and I think more importantly, it is to look at the sun's output, and in recent years, we've seen very, very low sunspot activity, and we are definitely, in my mind, not only in a cooling period, we're going to be staying in it for a couple decades, and I see it as a major advantage, although I think we will be able to adapt to it. I'm hopeful that this change in the sun's output will put some common sense into the legislature, not to pass any dramatic cap in trade or carbon tax legislation that will set us in a far deeper economic hole. I believe Mr. Obama and his economic team are well placed to dig us out of this recession in the next 18 months to 2 years, but I think if we pass any dramatic legislation to reduce greenhouse gases, the recession will last quite a few more years and we'll come out of it with a lower standard of living on very tenuous scientific grounds.
    CNN.com - Transcripts 01/13/2009

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