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    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #1

    Dec 1, 2011, 10:04 AM
    Bullying’s rising toll of suicides
    Another suicide from bullying this week. A 15 year old teenage girl killed herself after being bullied both at school and online. Suicide remains the second-leading cause of death among teenagers, after car accidents. What can WE do to stop this? Suspension, expulsion, permanent criminal record? These kids are killing themselves rather than having to face the torments at school, and the kids behind the bullying are getting suspended? A week off school for a life? This NEEDS to stop, how can we eliminate bullying?

    Bullying in Schools
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #2

    Dec 1, 2011, 01:36 PM
    This appears to be a world wide phenonemon and you have to look at society, kids are fed on television, games and a line which tells them how good they are. The result violence and bad behaviour, no respect for others. We have built the Lord of the Rings world and the kids can't take it
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,302, Reputation: 7692
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    #3

    Dec 1, 2011, 01:49 PM
    I will look at it somewhat differently, why not raise kids to understand life is tough sometimes, that there are those that will try and bully you. Teach kids growing up that they will have to deal with this, as kids, as college students and as adults often in the work place.

    We teach kids to talk to parents about problems.

    And teach the kids that there is results from their actions, if they kiss Johnny behind the school ( male or female) and someone takes a photo of it, it can get out, if they send a naked photo of theirself to someone, it may be given to the entire school.

    Kids have ( as for too many feel entitled) as do too many parents do.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #4

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:13 PM
    Chuck you know as well as I do this arises from permissiveness, which in itself is a social problem.

    You say teach kids, but I say stop teaching them the rubbish they are being taught.

    Mobile phones should be banned in schools and parents should ban kids from sites like Facebook. Kids know life is tough they see it every day in the schools, it only takes one rogue kid for problems to start, but schools don't deal effectively with the rogue. Don't think such problems suddenly arise, the problem kids are known from earliest times in the system and they are still permitted into the school population. You want to stop this. Ban the kids from the school system at the first sign of dysfunctional behaviour so the parents are forced to deal with the problem with special schooling and counselling.

    You and I know why schools and teachers won't do it, they fear law suits and confrontation with parents
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #5

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:14 PM
    And there should be a short course about bullying during each year of school with role-playing, research, appropriate book-reading, perhaps art/poster-making. Some schools are doing more about teaching manners and practicing conversations on how to deflect bullies, and also giving bullies needed self-esteem so they stop having to put others down in order to feel better about themselves.

    The worst thing to do is sweep this under the rug.
    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #6

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:36 PM
    I agree, the worst thing we can do here is to sweep it under the rug. We may have created this mess with coddling and babying our kids, but it's time we fix it. There needs to be harsher punishments for these kids who bully.

    While I agree we need to teach our kids that life is tough and it can be harsh at times, I think there is NO excuse for bullying. We can't blame the parents of these victims for their passive parenting skills, we need to punish the kids, and maybe even the parents of these kids who bully or find it acceptable to treat another human being with less respect than they would treat their friends and family. No this doesn't mean everyone has to be friends and hold hands and sing songs, but just like in the real world, we can't go around telling people (co-workers, bosses... ) off because we don't like they way they look. We tell out kids, presumably the bullied child was taught this as well, that we treat people with respect, we show self control, we walk away from fights and people looking to fight. Why shouldn't there be consequences for those who won't follow the rules? In the real world they would be fired and removed from the situation, in school, they aren't being removed and the victim is the only one suffering.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #7

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:43 PM
    I'm just finishing Lee Child's newest Jack Reacher thriller, The Affair. Jack head-butts three bullies in rapid-fire succession and breaks their noses, and then later shoots another one dead. Bullies better beware, as their victims may well turn on them.
    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #8

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:47 PM
    And that's a whole other subject WG, now those bullied ARE retaliating and bringing guns to school. Columbine was because one kid was bullied too far.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #9

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:56 PM
    As I think back, at every place I've ever worked, there has been at least one bully doing damage to other workers. Even adults don't know how to deal with bullies. We've seen victims come to this site to ask for help -- victims who are bullied in school or at work or by relatives or in-laws.
    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #10

    Dec 1, 2011, 02:59 PM
    I wrote a thread about being bullied at work. I didn't classify it as bullying then, but now that I look back, I see I was being bullied.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #11

    Dec 1, 2011, 03:04 PM
    A bully doesn't feel good about himself for some reason, so must put down someone else so he can feel better. He looks around for easy prey.

    The trick is to not be that easy prey, to have the self-esteem to not become a bully's victim. And our self-esteem may be low for reasons that have nothing to do with the bully, but he senses that emotional hole and zooms in for the kill.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
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    #12

    Dec 1, 2011, 03:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    A bully doesn't feel good about himself for some reason, so must put down someone else so he can feel better. He looks around for easy prey.

    The trick is to not be that easy prey, to have the self-esteem to not become a bully's victim. And our self-esteem may be low for reasons that have nothing to do with the bully, but he senses that emotional hole and zooms in for the kill.
    What really needs to happen is allow children to fail. Yes I said it the F word. FAIL ! Its all too often parents of today insulate their children from failure. Why? By falling down you learn to get back up. If you never fall then when the rude awakening happens it's a shocker. Its not just boys either girls are a problem too.

    You can't win every game and you can't always get the highest grades achievable. Many great sports heroes were told at one point or another they couldn't cut it. They made a choice to rise above. In today's world the bar has been lowered so far down that even doing the limbo can't get them under it. We needs to aid our children for the coming years and that is a part of parenting. Teaching them tools for the world ahead. Also anyone that believes they are getting bullied should take self defense classes and even the plain. I saw bullies growing up but I never was the brunt of one. I was usually the one standing up for those that couldn't. So the thought of being bullied is foreign to me. That low tolerance came from my upbringing. Its something that is sorely missing in today's times.


    <putting the soap box away now>
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #13

    Dec 1, 2011, 04:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by califdadof3 View Post
    What really needs to happen is allow children to fail.
    <pulling the soapbox out and jumping atop it>

    I've seen newspaper articles that claim a school has forbidden a science fair winner year after year from competing again because "it doesn't give other children a chance." And then there are the trophies given to not only the children on the winning team but also to every child on the losing teams, "so there aren't any hurt feelings." Hello! What's wrong with this picture? The self-esteem culture has gotten way out of hand.

    There was a kid in the first-grade class that I student taught. I'll never forget him -- John Love, despite his name, a real bully. My supervising teacher, the grade's real teacher, had me thinking triple time to figure out ways to channel John's need to bully into creative and useful patterns of behavior.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
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    #14

    Dec 1, 2011, 04:35 PM
    I agree. I helped a child do a paper that was do for his class (he was a friend of my sons) and he wanted to print things off and make an awesome report. He did a good job. The problem is that they didn't grade it. Everyone got a star for effort. It was highly discouraging to both him and his parents.
    What a system. They took schools that were an institution for learning and created a social network system instead. They shouldn't allow schools to experiment at will. Let children fail and find the problem areas. Work on those to improve the system not hold everyone back for the sake of the one.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #15

    Dec 1, 2011, 04:49 PM
    Reminds me of a recent article about a classroom project to make a diorama of a Roman bath. One girl worked hard on hers after doing much research. Another child turned in one with even piping and running water. Guess whose parent(s) gave a "bit" of help...

    When students come to this site and throw their homework assignments at us, I figure they are used to getting adult help, but maybe it isn't available this time, so heck, turn to some gullible person on the Internet.

    This is sort of off-topic from bullying, but not really since bullies tend to have low self-esteem -- and who better to boost that and give them a feeling of entitlement but parents?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #16

    Dec 1, 2011, 06:54 PM
    The one thing I haven't seen here is bring back corporal punishment. What a bully needs is a good belting at the first sign of trouble. Discipline is lacking because teachers are too namby pamby to enforce it. Stupid PC ideas permiate not only education but homes with ideas such a child should not be smacked often a swifh smack at the right time and you never have to do it again. It teaches children cause and effect
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #17

    Dec 1, 2011, 07:04 PM
    I totally disagree,'clete, and believe that would the absolutely wrong way to handle a bully or even discipline a child
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
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    #18

    Dec 1, 2011, 07:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    The one thing I haven't seen here is bring back corporal punishment. What a bully needs is a good belting at the first sign of trouble. Discipline is lacking because teachers are too namby pamby to enforce it. Stupid PC ideas permiate not only education but homes with ideas such a child should not be smacked often a swifh smack at the right time and you never have to do it again. it teaches children cause and effect
    Are you sugesting the schools be the one to dole out corpral punishment? I wouldn't be in favor of that. It puts children at too much risk for abuse. Day after day you read in the paper of one teacher or another taking advantage of a student. In my day they had it but they had to call home first. After my school was informed that Im allowed to fight back and its best to send me home they never bothered again.

    I would never let a stranger spank my child for any reason. Send them home to be taken care of.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,861, Reputation: 5431
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    #19

    Dec 1, 2011, 07:13 PM
    I taught school long enough to learn that hitting a child does not accomplish anything but instill anger and fear. My loving and Christian grandfather disciplined his sons with a belt (1920s and '30s), and the same thing happened.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #20

    Dec 1, 2011, 07:33 PM
    It is possible to go too far but it is lack of disciple and a lack of understanding of discipline that we see today.

    I was disciplined in school and it didn't do me any lasting harm. There have to be limits but the deterrant effect is worth it for teachers and parents alike. As I said it is these namby pamby attitudes that have us in this predicament and while I think fighting back is a good thing, it should be organised and supervised. We all know children/teenagers have difficulty restraining themselves

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