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    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #1

    Apr 21, 2013, 08:17 AM
    Boston
    Hello:

    A few questions in no particular order:

    (1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding?

    (4) Is Russia going to help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there?

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when?

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE?

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers?

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?

    (10) Who should we drone?

    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops?

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?

    excon
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,701, Reputation: 1438
    Internet Research Expert
     
    #2

    Apr 21, 2013, 09:27 AM
    Im going to try to answer a few of these to get this thread going.

    (1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?

    I just wanted the SOB's responsible for it caught.

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?

    Not at this time as there is no real connection other then country of origin.

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding?

    This one is bothering me a lot. From what I have heard so far its been a lone wolf occurrence acting in tandem with his brother. That being said if there were no direct ties by communication from other sources as in orders to do so. Then they In my opinion should not be enemy combatant status.

    (4) Is Russia going to help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there?

    Why would they bother other then creating disinformation.

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?

    At this time Im expecting fedral court and my reason for it is the above answer to the Gitmo question.

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when?

    It should have been read to him on 2 occasions. The first being when he was arrested / detained and the second would be when he was medically aware of the world around him. Im going with the understanding he was tore up badly when captured and required surgury so its safe to assume meds are / were involved.

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE?

    So far seems to be a lone act until we find out more.

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers?

    Do you really want to tick off the south even more?

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?

    No, not at all.

    (10) Who should we drone?

    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops?

    From what I hear the cops did it? Is there something different floating out there or video? The cop cars should have had their dash cams on at that time.

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?

    No clue :)
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #3

    Apr 21, 2013, 09:52 AM
    (1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?
    I never thought that was a high probability . As you recall ,I speculated the bomber(s) were radical Shia .I was right. Tameran was influenced by a radical Shia cleric from Australia .

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?
    Nope ,if this was a state sponsored attack ,it did not originate from Chechnya. I already pointed out that the Chechen revolt was a nationalist revolt against Russia .Now it's true that AQ has hijacked the movement... and IF it can be proved that Tameran was trained there in the time he travelled there ,then perhaps a well placed Hell fire is in order .

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding? Wouldn't do any good .Any water poured down his throat would pour out of the hole he put in his neck.

    (4) Is Russia going to help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there? I think so.

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?
    He's an American citizen as of Sept 11,2012... the day of the Benghazi attack. He is entitled to the rights of an American .

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when? Yes... before he is charged with a criminal act. I fully support the exception rule being applied to find out if he is part of a wider cell.

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE?
    unknown

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers? Only ones larger than 1 qt.

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?
    silly question
    (10) Who should we drone?
    already answered that .
    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops? Probably did the coup de gras by running him over .

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?
    I don't know why he was deported and I don't think the Obots will be forthcoming in explaining that move.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
    Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
     
    #4

    Apr 21, 2013, 09:56 AM
    From what I've read;

    1) Probably
    2) No
    3) No
    4) I don't know. If it doesn't go against their interests, I think they may. They have a terrorism problem, possibly even greater than ours.
    5) Federal Court
    6) According to the US Attorney, under National Security law they were not required to Mirandize. However, as I understand it, he was wounded in the neck so was unable to talk. So Mirandizing was unnecessary. As long as he is read his rights prior to being interrogated, then there shouldn't be a problem.
    7) Hopefully they will find out.
    8) Of course ;)
    9) No
    10) Seems to me there is a lot of droning going on in the media ;)
    11) According to what I read, he was run over by the escape vehicle. Whether that killed him or not I don't know.
    12) Huh?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #5

    Apr 21, 2013, 11:17 AM
    Follow up questions... obviously we don't want cities in America being locked down whenever there is a terror attack .If the Boston soft target attack represents the 'new normal' ,then how do we prevent it so we are not putting major population areas into extended lock down ?
    Would such a lock down and sweep of the college community of Watertown be as effective regarding cooperation with authorities in communities like Dearborn Michigan... or lets say ;if some of the gangbangers resorted to terrorism in the inner cities of America ? There is a video of a Brooklyn cop trying to arrest a Muslim man who was taunting a Jew that tells me otherwise .

    SEE IT: Wild Brooklyn melee erupts as NYPD arrests Muslim teen for allegedly taunting Jewish subway rider - NY Daily News

    Actually ,when you think about it ,the lockdown and sweep wasn't effective at all .It took a private citizen who went outside for a smoke to provide the lead that ended the search.
    Public video sources like store surveillance cameras, cell phones etc were crucial resources in finding the cultprits. Without them ,the FBI would have been limited to a Russian tip from 2 years ago. Doesn't that mean that the era of law enforcement surveillance through either public or private means is here to stay ?

    The flaw in the security measures that were taken in Boston was that a critical space at the finish line was open public access. Will this mean that in the future we will be subject to increasing use of pre-screened restricted access areas . Will events like the Boston Marathon hire armed private security agencies to bolster the security of events like the marathon. Will local officials allow this intrusion on their turf ? Btw... another name for private security might be called (dare I say ) militia.
    smkanand's Avatar
    smkanand Posts: 602, Reputation: 56
    Senior Member
     
    #6

    Apr 21, 2013, 11:21 AM
    2) If they would have been from any other country like middle east, afagn or pakistan or any other, until now some action would have been taken. There is way of economic restrictions on responsible country.

    4) Russia might help but its unlikely.
    5) federal court is seems to be first possibility.
    7) now this is really serious. It is impossible to act alone at such level. There is high possibility of sleeper cells in the region as well as country.
    8) No pressure cooker ban or any other ban won't help. If you ban cooker, they will find another way like tiffin box or mobile phone.
    9) No, not all muslims but the fundamentalist and the people who have sympathy for them.
    10) don't know yet because they have not found or may be not declare any groups name yet. But I would say instead of drone, it is not the right time to leave afgan.
    12) No don't think so...
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Apr 21, 2013, 11:50 AM
    Hello tom:

    You bring up a good point.. In fact, I think the reaction to THIS bombing is WAYYYY different than 9/11. This time, as a country, we're CELEBRATING our freedom. After 9/11 we passed Patriot Act which DECIMATED our freedom.

    This time the cops were VERY aware that they couldn't keep a city on lockdown forever.. I don't think the Bush/Cheney cabal would have had ANY problems doing that..

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #8

    Apr 21, 2013, 12:07 PM
    Except Bush and Cheney didn't... not even close . If we are subject to regular soft target attacks then we'll see how quickly the public demands a vigorous police type response . You did not even come close to answering my questions. Clete brought it up about the official presence of video surveillance on almost every corner of London . That I believe is in our future.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #9

    Apr 21, 2013, 03:26 PM
    All good questions EX, you do know you were warned about one of these fellows by the Russians. It is time to prevent muslims from travelling anywhere where they might be radicalised, to prevent their internet access to prevent them being radicalised and to root out these radical clerics in our midst.

    It is said he was radicalised by an Australian cleric, well we have some vipers in our midst too, and I used to comment on them in another place but they have been laying low in recent times although we are concerned what the outcome of Syria will be on radicallising
    Muslim youth. We hope you won't associate this radical cleric with our views
    smkanand's Avatar
    smkanand Posts: 602, Reputation: 56
    Senior Member
     
    #10

    Apr 22, 2013, 12:02 AM
    Problem is really in the constitutional frame of many countries who are not democratic and those who are, mostly not secular. True democracy in the islamic nations might help.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,302, Reputation: 7692
    Expert
     
    #11

    Apr 22, 2013, 03:06 AM
    (1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?

    No one wants it to be one of their own

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?

    Perhaps they would like it, a short war and we give them billions in aid.

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding?

    He killed a Chinese National, turn him over to China, he will beg to go to Gitmo, or even turn him over to Russia, he will be happy for the worst america can do

    (4) Is Russia going to help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there?

    Yes, I think Russia and China both want a answer to this

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?

    Act of war and terror, military tribunal.

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when?

    Miranda is almost never read at arrest, that is TV and Movies, it is read prior to questioning and normally by the investigators. He had a throat injury, could not even speak, so there was no need to read him any rights, but to get him medical aid.

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE?

    There are lots of cells here, they will not know other members, and if they did, they are all moved by now

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers?

    They are dangerous, do you know how many home accidents a year are done, They need to be bought with permits only and then after proper training.

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?

    Only the people who knew about this person, In fact perhaps US since they were aware but were not allowed to get rid of them, due to restrictions.

    (10) Who should we drone?



    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops?

    About who thinks he is really dead but taken to a secret base to be questioned.

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #12

    Apr 22, 2013, 03:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smkanand View Post
    problem is really in the constitutional frame of many countries who are not democratic and those who are, mostly not secular. true democracy in the islamic nations might help.
    I think you have just committed an oxymoron
    True democracy isn't possible in Muslim nations, nowhere does the Koran suggest a vote should be taken

    Democracy is a greek concept, it is foreign to Jewish, Christian and Muslim fundamentals
    The jews wanted a king (Saul) not a committee and they wanted secular rule not the religious rule of the prophets
    Christians want Christ to rule there can be no vote
    Muslims want Sharia rule, the Caliphate and the Caliph

    Democracy exists in only a few places, many have bureaucracy or autocracy but democracy doesn't exist in a theocracy
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #13

    Apr 22, 2013, 05:32 AM
    Hello again,

    You know, I HATE cops, except when I LOVE them..

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #14

    Apr 22, 2013, 06:53 AM
    OK I'll play along...

    (1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?

    No, but some left-wingers were hoping he was.

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?

    I see no reason to do so.

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding?

    No.

    (4) Is Russia going to help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there?

    They've already offered help. I think they'd like to know, too.

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?

    Courts.

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when?

    Yes, before questioning.

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE?

    I believe that's still up in the air.

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers?

    I don't know, do New Yorkers ever need a pot of beans cooked in an hour?

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?

    No.

    (10) Who should we drone?

    Ed Asner

    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops?

    Who cares?

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?

    Is that why he deported him?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #15

    Apr 22, 2013, 07:52 AM
    "2) If they would have been from any other country like middle east, afagn or pakistan or anyother, until now some action would have been taken. there is way of economic restrictions on responsible country. "

    You are suggesting economic sanctions against their home country for the act of two radicals, whether other people acted with them?

    How about somebody asking Homeland Security how this happened when at least one brother was brought to HL's attention before - left the US, returned - and still nothing despite a warning (if what I am reading is correct).
    smkanand's Avatar
    smkanand Posts: 602, Reputation: 56
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    #16

    Apr 22, 2013, 09:07 AM
    Economic sanctions been used for many reason besides terror attacks, like weapon development, technology transfer etc. drone attacks killed many criminals including innocents. Economic restriction put pressure on the government of that specific country to act against such groups who exist in their country. If the country willing to act then no need.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #17

    Apr 22, 2013, 10:50 AM
    " if the country willing to act then no need."

    Are you saying that you believe Russia is somehow responsible for this, that Russia should somehow act? If so, what would you specifically like Russia to do about these two adults who lived in the US? The US can't monitor every US citizen in Russia. I think it works both ways.

    If anyone believes your logic the US would be boycotting every other Country in the World.

    Citizens of India continue to commit crimes against US citizens. In fact, as of today there is another warning to US citizens, particularly women, concerning assaults and rapes in India. I think the US should boycott India.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #18

    Apr 22, 2013, 10:59 AM
    I don't think anyone can make a case that this was state sponsored terrorism. The Russians will cooperate as far as telling us what the older brother was up to when he travelled to the region. It is in the Russians interest to do so . The Russians have had a defacto war against Chechnya since the breakup of the Soviet Union . At times it has been brutal .
    Our problem is not with Chechnya . It is with radical Islamic jihad . There are no sanctions that will make a difference unless a link can be established.. .

    Frankly there a more convincing links in Riyadh... drill baby drill!!
    Gernald's Avatar
    Gernald Posts: 901, Reputation: 93
    Expert
     
    #19

    Apr 22, 2013, 12:23 PM
    1) Were right wingers holding their breath HOPING he wasn't one of their own?

    Nope, I figured it was either some dumb kids or North Korea ;-)

    (2) Should we invade Chechnya?

    Um... NO.

    (3) Should the kid be taken to Gitmo for waterboarding?

    Can we do that? If so yes! He wants to act like a terrorist, we can treat him like one!

    (4) Is Russia gonna help us find out what the dead terrorist was DOING when he went there?

    NOPE, Russia hates America at the moment.

    (5) Should the live one be tried by military tribunal or by the federal court?

    Depends, which one costs less and is sure to get sentencing that fits the crime? Also depends on which one doesn't allow insanity plea crap.

    (6) Should Miranda be read to him? If so, when?

    Shouldn't they have done that when they arrested him? I'm pretty sure running from the cops even when you didn't do anything is a crime.

    (7) Did they act alone or is there a cell HERE??

    Alone here, but with help from someone on the outside.

    (8) Should Bloomberg ban pressure cookers?

    What exactly is a pressure cooker anyway?

    (9) Are ALL Muslims responsible?

    Are all Christians responsible?

    (10) Who should we drone?

    Everyone! They think we are already anyway, why not get something out of their fears!

    (11) Did the younger one KILL his brother by running over him, or was it the cops?

    Oh... I hadn't heard this one. Meh... I don't really care.

    (12) Was it really the Saudi that Obama deported because he's Kenyon, Muslim, Marxist terrorist himself?

    ??
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #20

    Apr 22, 2013, 01:12 PM
    US and Canadian authorities broke up a train bombing plot .
    'Major terrorist' plot broken up by Canadian and U.S. authorities | Fox News

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