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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #1

    Jun 24, 2019, 04:55 AM
    Bernie Sanders set to propose we wipe out all student debt.
    Read on Fox News this morning that Bernie Sanders is set to propose we "forgive" all student loan debt and make college free for everyone. If true, this will be yet another display of the "money grows on trees" mentality in Washington. He is set to propose a "tax on Wall Street" to pay for this paying off of debt, most of which belongs to young people perfectly capable of paying off their own debt. You can rest assured this tax, set for 2 trillion over the next ten years, will not come close to paying for this plan, meaning we will be adding hundreds of billions to our already outrageous 23 trillion in national debt. And making college "free" will soon be followed by federal price controls on tuition costs which are ridiculous and out of control.

    So this is how our federal government works. We run deficits of hundreds of billions of dollars a year and have 23 trillion in debt, but the people in charge push through huge tax cuts and then propose yet another give away program with money we don't have. And you wonder why I am in favor in limited government?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,896, Reputation: 5431
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    #2

    Jun 24, 2019, 08:53 AM
    Better would be getting rid of "graft and corruption" in colleges and universities. Tuition has soared because of all sorts of hidden expenses that never existed when I was in college and, more recently, in grad school. For instance, textbooks were resold to students taking that classes during the next semester. Now textbooks are slightly added to or parts reworded, so students have to buy pricey new textbooks that contain the (hidden) revisions. Also, retired profs and other educators become paid VPs and other "important" additions to the university faculty (even though they don't do anything except look distinguished, maybe have an office, and collect a paycheck). Those are only two reasons why college costs so much nowadays.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #3

    Jun 24, 2019, 10:28 AM
    Better would be getting rid of "graft and corruption" in colleges and universities. Tuition has soared because of all sorts of hidden expenses that never existed when I was in college and, more recently, in grad school. For instance, textbooks were resold to students taking that classes during the next semester. Now textbooks are slightly added to or parts reworded, so students have to buy pricey new textbooks that contain the (hidden) revisions. Also, retired profs and other educators become paid VPs and other "important" additions to the university faculty (even though they don't do anything except look distinguished, maybe have an office, and collect a paycheck). Those are only two reasons why college costs so much nowadays.
    I agree wholeheartedly. I would add this. Too many kids go to college and get degrees in areas that are nearly useless. Everything from women's studies to gender studies, philosophy, theater, fine arts, and so forth. Not that those don't have usable or even important knowledge, but they are of but little use in getting good jobs.

    I've heard the idea of having colleges be cosigners of the loans, assuming at least part of the risk. That would be the end of using borrowed money to fund stupid degree ideas.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,896, Reputation: 5431
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    #4

    Jun 24, 2019, 10:47 AM
    I agree, JL. My younger son attended a four-year private college for a degree in English (Creative Writing). Freshman tuition was $19,000; senior tuition was $30,000. Parents and students were told college costs everywhere were skyrocketing. Apparently!!!! My son said they read a bunch of classics to satisfy the lit requirement, and the creative writing too often consisted of assignments that resulted in a small group of students sitting around a large table, reading their stories to each other and throwing paper wads and spit balls at each other. Only the college's name, not the degree, helped him get a real-world job after graduation.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #5

    Jun 24, 2019, 10:56 AM
    I agree, JL. My younger son attended a four-year private college for a degree in English (Creative Writing). Freshman tuition was $19,000; senior tuition was $30,000. Parents and students were told college costs everywhere were skyrocketing. Apparently!!!! My son said they read a bunch of classics to satisfy the lit requirement, and the creative writing too often consisted of assignments that resulted in a small group of students sitting around a large table, reading their stories to each other and throwing paper wads and spit balls at each other. Only the college's name, not the degree, helped him get a real-world job after graduation.
    I made the same sort of mistake. My degree was in animal science, which was basically the livestock industry. I enjoyed the study and had a great time, but when I got out I had one job offer and didn't stick with that. In the end, the degree helped me get a job in teaching and that ended up being my field. And since my parents combined with my jobs enabled me to get out with no debt, then it was OK. I feel sorry for these kids. These student loans should be much more difficult to get.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,896, Reputation: 5431
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    #6

    Jun 24, 2019, 11:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I feel sorry for these kids. These student loans should be much more difficult to get.
    And like you mentioned earlier, the classes and resulting degrees should be useful, not time-wasting, credit-amassing courses that end up as majors that don't help when job hunting after graduation.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #7

    Jun 24, 2019, 11:11 AM
    And like you mentioned earlier, the classes and resulting degrees should be useful, not time-wasting, credit-amassing courses that end up as majors that don't help when job hunting after graduation.
    Well, we can go ahead and close this site down. You and I have now agreed on this topic, and have agreed to a fairly high degree. It would be best to stop now while the memory is most vivid. It is etched in the digital stone of Askmehelpdesk!
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,896, Reputation: 5431
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    #8

    Jun 24, 2019, 11:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Well, we can go ahead and close this site down. You and I have now agreed on this topic, and have agreed to a fairly high degree. It would be best to stop now while the memory is most vivid. It is etched in the digital stone of Askmehelpdesk!
    I'm even starting to really like you a lot!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #9

    Jun 24, 2019, 12:52 PM
    I'm even starting to really like you a lot!
    Stop the presses! A miracle has happened!!

    Just give it time. The ole pendulum will swing back to, "What is it with this fundamentalist, far-right loonie?"
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #10

    Jun 24, 2019, 03:08 PM
    Bernies idea is basic socialism, free education, but you need to get rid of the idea you need a university degree to get a job.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #11

    Jun 24, 2019, 03:29 PM
    Student debt is a big deal, but good luck to any dem that thinks they could actually pass such a wish list without a super majority in the congress. I don't see that so the soariring silly season rhetoric is pretty meaningless.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #12

    Jun 24, 2019, 04:05 PM
    These things are line items in a manifesto. Very popular with socialists. We don't need to read it to know what is in it
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #13

    Jun 24, 2019, 04:06 PM
    It's not the policy, it's who runs it and how.
    teacherjenn4's Avatar
    teacherjenn4 Posts: 4,005, Reputation: 468
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    #14

    Jun 24, 2019, 07:19 PM
    I heard that interview too. Maybe I shouldn’t have paid for my kids to attend universities, and even med school! What was I thinking? Each of these candidates has so many giveaways and no action plan on how they will pay for it. Ugh!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #15

    Jun 24, 2019, 07:24 PM
    They didn't pay for the tax cuts either so what's the difference?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #16

    Jun 25, 2019, 04:06 AM
    They didn't pay for the tax cuts either so what's the difference?
    There is no difference. You are correct in your point. That's why we are 23 tril in debt. It's the one place where Trump is copying Obama's behavior...deficit spending.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #17

    Jun 25, 2019, 04:32 AM
    I heard that interview too. Maybe I shouldn’t have paid for my kids to attend universities, and even med school! What was I thinking? Each of these candidates has so many giveaways and no action plan on how they will pay for it. Ugh!
    I feel the same way. It's just another in a long line of liberal efforts to reward irresponsible behavior and buy votes with taxpayer/borrowed money.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #18

    Jun 25, 2019, 05:50 AM
    You should be grateful that you could help your kids through higher education. Many parents cannot so the kids should be doomed to debts and low paying jobs? Not all of them are pursuing "frivalous careers", but if your saying some of their dreams are stupid I disagree. The real issue is the rising costs of things and the slow return on that investment one makes to achieve that degree that is so prized as the key to a better life. Liberal or conservative, I think taking campaign promises and rhetoric should be taken with a grain of salt as the real world few things can be accomplished from them. Bernie if made president has little hope of getting what he wants without a vast super majority, so why get bent out of shape over it?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,473, Reputation: 156
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    #19

    Jun 25, 2019, 07:26 AM
    You should be grateful that you could help your kids through higher education.
    Who said I wasn't? But I'll tell you what, it didn't come easy.

    Many parents cannot so the kids should be doomed to debts and low paying jobs?
    If a young person is going to incur debt to get a degree, it should be a degree for a job that pays well so they can repay the loan. If they are "doomed" to a low paying job, then wouldn't that indicate a poorly thought-out career choice???

    Not all of them are pursuing "frivalous careers", but if your saying some of their dreams are stupid I disagree.
    Having a dream is one thing. Having a dream you cannot pay for is something else, and then expecting to be able to live for years in your parent's basement and requiring your neighbors to pony up with taxes (and even worse, borrowed money) to pay for your dream is an outrage.

    The real issue is the rising costs of things and the slow return on that investment one makes to achieve that degree that is so prized as the key to a better life.
    There is some truth in that statement.
    teacherjenn4's Avatar
    teacherjenn4 Posts: 4,005, Reputation: 468
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    #20

    Jun 25, 2019, 10:17 AM
    I am grateful for being able to pay for my kids’ educations. I am a public school teacher and saved every cent I could to give them a better life than I had. I will be staying long past retirement age to guarantee that I have enough savings. By the way, I was a single parent.

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